Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say • Hacker News Board

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#111

Post by igorgue » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:26 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #23

I've never been a user, but I do support legalisation. The reason I support it even though I myself wouldn't benefit is: - It is at least as safe as tobacco and alcohol. So even if we leave the question of what is safer on the table, I think most people would agree based on available evidence that it isn't LESS safe than those two, and they're legal. - The "war on drugs" has been a disaster. It has actually hurt econ…

People drive under conditions that they shouldn't, I know kids that wont wear a seatbealt and never follow rules in general.

What I'm trying to say is that, same as with alcohol, people are still going to do it. Legalization won't change how people feel the effects of pot affect their driving.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#112

Post by notahacker » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:27 PM UTC

commandar wrote: post #20

trose wrote: post #8

I can't help but feel that statistic they're using is a little disingenuous. Yes cannabis has a ridiculously high lethal dose, more than you could ever smoke or consume. You'd basically have to create a concentrate and inject it directly or something. I don't think you should be saying that cannabis is 114 times less deadly than alcohol. There are other contributing factors that could cause harm. There seems to be no…

>There seems to be no research into carcinogenic qualities of cannabis smoke for example. Isn't part of the problem the fact that marijuana is scheduled as a drug so dangerous that it's incredibly difficult to do that research?

Illegality doesn't help, but there are jurisdictions where marijuana is legal. In fact there are plenty of studies, but the answers are so disparate that the original study authors reasonably chose not to factor them in: depending on whose studies you believe, a couple of joints a day could be a bit more likely to induce lung cancer than a few cigarettes, pose a negligible risk or even mildly reduce the risk if you're already smoking the tobacco.

A bigger (although not entirely unrelated) problem than legal status is that controlling for appropriate variables is an absolute minefield when studying usage of something as heavily correlated with certain demographics, behaviours and attitudes as cannabis.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#113

Post by PlzSnow » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #54

PlzSnow wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"After smoking fairly consistently for 13 years, I seem to be blessed by having no negative effects of which I am aware." Your prose suggests otherwise.

I think you're suggesting that there's an error in the snippet you've quoted? I don't immediately see it. Can you point it out?

Your prose exhibits that rambling not-to-the-pointness that I often encounter when interacting with habitual blunters.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#114

Post by digikata » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #79

DanBC wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. Is this supported by any research? Road traffic accident statistics show too many young people. So, older people might be safer drivers. Of course, there are a few people with dementia or visual impairment who shouldn't be driving but it's interesting that it's ok to suggest that older people are risky drivers when that doesn't appear to be t…

Older drivers (85+) are generally extremely risky per mile. "On the per-mile basis, the death rate of target drivers aged 85 and older is nearly triple that of drivers aged 16 to 17" https://aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/OlderDriverRis... They drive fewer miles, but even still their far more risky than teenagers. "The per-driver death rate of target drivers aged 85 and older is nearly double that of target dr…

I'm not sure about your takeaway from that link. In the Summary:

"For example, the results of this study suggest that if a randomly-selected driver in his or thirties and a randomly-selected driver aged 85 or older were to drive equal numbers of miles, the older driver would be over 1500% more likely than the younger driver to be responsible for and die as a result of a crash, and about 220% more likely than the younger driver to kill an occupant of another vehicle or a non-motorist.

However, drivers in their thirties drive approximately 217% more miles on average than drivers aged 85 and older do. Without statistical adjustment for what occurs naturally, a randomly-selected driver aged 85 or older is about 720% more likely than a randomly selected driver aged 30 to 39 to die in a crash, but only about 0.8% more likely to kill an occupant of another vehicle or a non-motorist, over the course of a year."

I haven't gone back to review what the author means exactly by "statistical adjustment for what occurs naturally"

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#115

Post by dejawu » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

jrells wrote: post #78

Zelphyr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just bad drivers in general, regardless of our level of intoxication. Texting. Dancing (I see this frequently). The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. I'm of a mind that its actually way too easy to obtain a drivers license in this country. For example; my mother took my uncle to get his drivers license renewed. Why she did is beyond me because he has early stage dementia. He…

I would question the claim that Americans are bad drivers in general. Compared to driving I've seen in other countries (particularly India, China), even the worst drivers I've seen in America aren't so bad. And the worst drivers in America I know personally are not actually Americans but internationals. Maybe we are generally worse compared to other western countries but my experience suggests the prevalence of drivi…

I'd definitely say American drivers, as a whole, are less prepared for and take too lightly the responsibility of driving a car. It is far too easy to get a license in this country: My test consisted of me, at sixteen years old, going around a suburban block with very little traffic at about 35 miles an hour, followed by a brief parallel parking test (a test I consider far less relevant than, say, being able to merge on a busy freeway at high speed). To qualify for this test, I only had to purchase an online driving course and fill out forms claiming that my parents had been me with me while I drove - none of which required time with a trained instructor.

Contrast this with China - one of the countries that you listed as an example of having bad drivers - where to obtain a license you need to pay the equivalent of a few thousand USD for a rigorous driving course in an isolated area (you can't even drive on the road before you have your license; learner's licenses do not permit you to drive on public roads). After this, you are still under some limitations until a year after you've obtained the license.

In addition to this, the more aggressive driving culture of China involves many more vehicles jostling for smaller spaces than would be the case in America. The skill and spatial awareness of the vehicle necessary to cope with this sort of environment is far greater than that needed to deal with even the most demanding driving environments of America.

We are definitely more laid-back and polite in driving than China (and I would prefer that any day) but more skillful? I highly doubt that.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#116

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:31 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #56

lotsofmangos wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There have been numerous studies in which the effects of marijuana have been assesed on performance in driving simulators and even a few studies conducted in city traffic. Much to everyone's surprise, the results of many of these studies revealed only relatively small impairments in driving skills, even after quite large doses of the drug. Several of the early studies showed no impairment at all, but as driving simu…

Or replace the need for an active driver at all. Seems like we're already flirting with this scenario with the lane-assist, adaptive cruise control etc. The question then becomes, if an active/traditional "driver" is not needed, can the occupants be intoxicated?

Yeah, the inherent advantages of self-driving cars look set to moot these debates within the next decade.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#117

Post by MBlume » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:31 PM UTC

Cannabis has a ridiculously high LD50, everyone knows that. When I think "is cannabis safe" I'm not wondering if I'm one day going to smoke so much weed that I keel over dead, I'm wondering if habitual marijuana use would lower my IQ/damage my lungs/etc.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#118

Post by Retric » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:35 PM UTC

digikata wrote: post #114

Retric wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Older drivers (85+) are generally extremely risky per mile. "On the per-mile basis, the death rate of target drivers aged 85 and older is nearly triple that of drivers aged 16 to 17" https://aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/OlderDriverRis... They drive fewer miles, but even still their far more risky than teenagers. "The per-driver death rate of target drivers aged 85 and older is nearly double that of target dr…

I'm not sure about your takeaway from that link. In the Summary: "For example, the results of this study suggest that if a randomly-selected driver in his or thirties and a randomly-selected driver aged 85 or older were to drive equal numbers of miles, the older driver would be over 1500% more likely than the younger driver to be responsible for and die as a result of a crash, and about 220% more likely than the youn…

These statistics get very tricky as older people are more likely to die in an identical crash causing identical trauma. Older drivers drive at different times of day, have different passenger profiles, and drive different cars.

However, in the end 85+ year old drivers are simply less safe than 16 year old drivers. The issue is quantifying how much less safe they are.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#119

Post by ufmace » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:35 PM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #26

Someone1234 wrote: post #23

I've never been a user, but I do support legalisation. The reason I support it even though I myself wouldn't benefit is: - It is at least as safe as tobacco and alcohol. So even if we leave the question of what is safer on the table, I think most people would agree based on available evidence that it isn't LESS safe than those two, and they're legal. - The "war on drugs" has been a disaster. It has actually hurt econ…

Agreed on the whole driving bit - but commensurately, whenever I'm in the US, I am astonished by how casually people drink and drive. Don't think it's a stoner problem, more an inconsiderate dickhead/cultural problem.

I'm American, and I think it's neither. It's more that in almost all of the country, the alternatives to drinking and driving work so badly that it's a better option, even with the risks. I think we're positively pathological about it in a way - we're all about punishment and stricter penalties, but nobody cares about making the alternatives suck less.

I drink pretty frequently, and I go to a lot of effort to never drive drunk. I don't think I've ever met a designated driver in person, but I've met a lot of people who talk about how they drink and drive home drunk anyways. Public transit is mostly nonexistent and unreliable, and most of what there is doesn't run at night. Taxi service is also either nonexistent or may take the better part of an hour outside of major city centers. Walking is also a practical impossibility outside of major city centers. Meanwhile, there are so many people driving a little drunk that you're probably safe enough as long as you aren't the one obviously swerving all over the road.

If we actually care about the issue, why don't we make better alternatives instead of creating a situation where it's painful to not drive drunk, and then act all outraged when people do it.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#120

Post by spacemanmatt » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:36 PM UTC

techpeace wrote: post #100

tsomctl wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Just, no. Speaking from my own experience, and that of my friends, marijuana can make you a shittier driver. I very much doubt the current scientific consensus is that marijuana in general makes you a better driver. It is possible that there are some strains with a certain cannabinoid ratio that has a minimal impact (like low in THC), but there are other strains that have a major impact.

The plural of anecdote isn't data.

Nor is it evidence