Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say • Hacker News Board

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#101

Post by techpeace » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:16 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #16

trose wrote: post #8

I can't help but feel that statistic they're using is a little disingenuous. Yes cannabis has a ridiculously high lethal dose, more than you could ever smoke or consume. You'd basically have to create a concentrate and inject it directly or something. I don't think you should be saying that cannabis is 114 times less deadly than alcohol. There are other contributing factors that could cause harm. There seems to be no…

> There seems to be no research into carcinogenic qualities of cannabis smoke for example. We know that cannabis smoke contains a bunch of the same carcinogens as tobacco smoke. But tobacco smokers smoke a lot more than cannabis smokers; and you don't have to smoke cannabis.

Could you reference a study that makes that claim? I've never heard that before.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#102

Post by DanBC » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:17 PM UTC

spacemanmatt wrote: post #64

DanBC wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There seems to be no research into carcinogenic qualities of cannabis smoke for example. We know that cannabis smoke contains a bunch of the same carcinogens as tobacco smoke. But tobacco smokers smoke a lot more than cannabis smokers; and you don't have to smoke cannabis.

Do we really know that? I mean, it stands to reason that combustion produces carcinogens, but cannabis is not tobacco. I think this is one of the basic assertions that must be validated by quantitative analysis.

You make it sound like noone has analyzed cannabis smoke. Do you really believe that? Obviously they have. Here's an easy read summary.

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?question...

The interesting one is:

> Dale Gieringer, PhD, State Coordinator of the California National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), stated in his 2004 article "Cannabis Vaporizer Combines Efficient Delivery of THC with Effective Suppression of Pyrolytic Compounds," published in the Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics, where he compared the chemical constituents of marijuana smoke (from a glass pipe) with marijuana vapor (from a vaporizer machine):

[...]

> Comparison runs using combusted [burned] cannabis presented a strikingly different picture... Review data from the gaseous headspace detected 111 tentatively identified compounds, including THC and CBN. Included were five known PAHs [polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons]. Cannabinoids represented only 12% of the inferred recovered mass; the remaining 88% consisted of extraneous products of combustion."

And that is followed by a different study:

> Donald P. Tashkin, MD, Director of the Pulmonary Function Laboratories at the University of California, Los Angeles, stated in his article "Effects of Marijuana on the Lung and its Immune Defenses," published in the Mar. 1997 "Secretary's Youth Substance Abuse Prevention Initiative: Resource Papers" by the Center for Substance Abuse Prevention:

> With regard to the carcinogenic potential of marijuana, it is noteworthy that the tar phase of marijuana smoke contains many of the same carcinogenic compounds contained in tobacco smoke, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, such as benz[a]pyrene, which was recently identified as a key factor promoting human lung cancer... Preliminary findings suggest that marijuana smoke activates cytochrome P4501A1, the enzyme that converts polycyclic hydrocarbons, such as benz[a]pyrene, into active carcinogens."

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#103

Post by dnissley » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:17 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #72

VLM wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People who drive under the influence of any mind altering substance (be it alcohol or weed)" How bout coffee, energy drinks, cold medicine, most prescribed prescription medicines have some blurb about possible mental effects, tea, kava, nodoz caffeine pills, numerous herbal products ... We only complain about certain psychoactive drugs, and not others. Theres no logic behind it aside from residual cultural Puritanis…

There is definitely logic behind it: anything that impairs one's driving can result in a DUI. Commercially available egogenics (caffeine) do not impair one's driving under typical doses.

Most of the studies I've seen on caffeine and driving have only focused on drivers who were already sleep deprived. Are there any that focus on it's effects on otherwise well-rested subjects?

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#104

Post by yellowapple » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:17 PM UTC

I'm not sure if that's a particularly good graph; I can't get my brain to not think "Hey, look at how big cannabis is on that scale; it's obviously the most dangerous!". I can't even find where in that article it's specified what those numbers actually mean. The only thing I have is an assertion by the graph that a higher number equals lower risk, which seems backwards; a lower number equaling a lower risk would be less nonsensical.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#105

Post by techpeace » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:18 PM UTC

benologist wrote: post #71

cnp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of the zillions and zillions of weed smokers over the past 100 years, there has never once been a reported case of someone dying due to carcinogenic responses to the smoke. Granted, there has never been a formal study, but there have been adjacent studies and by all intents and purposes it appears to be safe. Google around: https://www.google.com/search?q=marijuana+lung+cancer

Today we have have vastly stronger, concentrated wax/oil that can be up to 99+% THC enabling much faster and bigger consumption. Weed consumption and delivery will continue to be refined, a fatal dose is "impossible" only until it is not.

A "lethal" dosage of THC would require a blood transfusion - literally replacing your blood with THC until you asphyxiated. I've heard the LD50 (the lethal dosage that would kill 50% of the population) of cannabis described as "50 pounds dropped on your head from 50 feet."

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#106

Post by benologist » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:18 PM UTC

cnp wrote: post #83

benologist wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today we have have vastly stronger, concentrated wax/oil that can be up to 99+% THC enabling much faster and bigger consumption. Weed consumption and delivery will continue to be refined, a fatal dose is "impossible" only until it is not.

Consuming anything with a sort of deadly, self-destructive intent can lead to death, one way or another. But I'm sorry, if you're going for an LD50 experience with weed, you're not going to get there --ever. Its just not possible unless you've created a medical experiment designed to kill the subject, and to get to that place I'm quite certain additional drugs would be required. Another fruitful Google search: https:…

Innovators and inventors are being empowered by new and changing laws. Someone will invent something more potent than vaporizers until it too is replaced by something more potent. The only reason it hasn't already happened to weed is laws inhibited serious efforts and it came in a naturally consumable form that was good enough.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#107

Post by jrells » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #92

jrells wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would question the claim that Americans are bad drivers in general. Compared to driving I've seen in other countries (particularly India, China), even the worst drivers I've seen in America aren't so bad. And the worst drivers in America I know personally are not actually Americans but internationals. Maybe we are generally worse compared to other western countries but my experience suggests the prevalence of drivi…

There are different driving cultures and becoming proficient in one style might look like bad driving to someone from another culture.

True, this certainly skews my impression of driving in other countries. However, some of the examples I recall can not possibly be good driving in any culture (like making a ten point U-turn when there is ample room to make a single turn, or failing to park in a large spot after several attempts).

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#108

Post by tw04 » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #23

I've never been a user, but I do support legalisation. The reason I support it even though I myself wouldn't benefit is: - It is at least as safe as tobacco and alcohol. So even if we leave the question of what is safer on the table, I think most people would agree based on available evidence that it isn't LESS safe than those two, and they're legal. - The "war on drugs" has been a disaster. It has actually hurt econ…

I would agree with you they shouldn't be doing it, but I would disagree that's it's anywhere near the equivalent to drinking and driving. People who drink and drive (assuming not to the point of being blackout drunk) tend to drive more aggressively. People who get high and drive, if nothing else, are a danger to others for driving too slow and being too cautious.

I don't think it's a good idea to drive around a 2,000+ lbs pile of metal while in any kind of altered state, but I'd take someone high over someone drunk or extremely tired any day of the week.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#109

Post by TranceMan » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:21 PM UTC

hnov wrote: post #51

Someone1234 wrote: post #23

I've never been a user, but I do support legalisation. The reason I support it even though I myself wouldn't benefit is: - It is at least as safe as tobacco and alcohol. So even if we leave the question of what is safer on the table, I think most people would agree based on available evidence that it isn't LESS safe than those two, and they're legal. - The "war on drugs" has been a disaster. It has actually hurt econ…

Empirically, driving under the influence of marijuana makes one safer by dialing back their willingness to take risk. Empirically, I'd rather be a passenger to stoner a than someone past their 60s, in their teens or recently emigrated from a non driving country. More research needs to be done before we can make any conclusions but research to date hasn't shown it to be a problem [0]. I actually dread legalization bec…

Totally ancedotal - I have a friend who who gives me a lift and I feel more comfortable as a passenger when they are stoned. Their attention span is low.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#110

Post by yellowapple » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:23 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #30

madaxe_again wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on the whole driving bit - but commensurately, whenever I'm in the US, I am astonished by how casually people drink and drive. Don't think it's a stoner problem, more an inconsiderate dickhead/cultural problem.

I agree. People are far too blasé about drinking and driving in the US. It also seems like the punishment is often fairly light for the first few offenses (e.g. a small ticket, no penalty points, or similar). People from the US I've spoken to often claim this is because in some areas not having a car is pretty unworkable due to a lack of public transport or alternatives. So if driving was revoked then people could ge…

> e.g. a small ticket, no penalty points, or similar

This might not be the case in other states, but in California and (I believe) Nevada, even first-time offenses are at least a night in jail and significant penalty points. License revocation is also not unheard of. Classes are pretty common.

Source: former California Highway Patrol employee. I processed a lot of arrest reports for drunk drivers.