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Why is perl losing its touch?

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Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#51

Post by placeybordeaux »

kbenson wrote: post #6

It's fairly obvious that the python programming language results are fairly drowned out by the Monty Python and snake results, as illustrated by all the news headlines shown for python, and by related topics and queries. That's not to say that the trend shown is entirely incorrect, just that it would be mostly coincidental to the data shown here.

It is pretty simple to check to see if it is really refrences to monty python.

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=perl%2C%20python%20-m...

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#52

Post by placeybordeaux »

arh68 wrote: post #13
adregan wrote: post #12

I compared perl and JavaScript: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Perl%2C%20JavaScript&... And they both have a similar decline.

JavaScript is so yesterday, Ada is clearly the language of the future. :P http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=ada%2C%20JavaScript&c...

JavaScript is so yesterday, jquery is clearly the language of the future.

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=JavaScript%2C%20jquer...

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#53

Post by enknamel »

ExpiredLink wrote: post #44
enknamel wrote: post #38

I'm not sure you are comparing apples to apples here. I would instead consider a graph like this one: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F05zrn%2C%20%2F... Though I am not sure how Google categorizes search terms intro specific things like a programming language versus a python snake, etc. I wasn't offered a Python language selector so I changed it to Java and added Go for fun.

I'm sure you are comparing apples to oranges here. Perl mainly is an alternative to shell script. A language for administrators.

That's probably it's number 1 use case. However, I've seen it used to build million+ user game servers, GUIs, etc. It's general purpose.

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#54

Post by sebleblanc »

tomjen3 wrote: post #47
jafaku wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which popular language nowadays doesn't have closures? Even the so hated (by HN) PHP has had that for many years already.

Python is often claimed not to have closures but that isn't really true, what it doesn't have is anonymous functions. It does have a lambda statement, but that is limited to a single statement. So what you end up writing is more akin to: def multiplier_maker(a): def temp(b): return b * a return temp That is because Python allows you to declare a function anyware, even inside other functions.

And if you want to emulate static variables in a function, you can do that:

    def counter():
        counter.x += 1
        return counter.x

    counter.x = 0
    counter()
    > 1
    counter()
    > 2
Beware! singleton variables, mutable state, etc.

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#55

Post by michaelpinto »

Perl was a victim of its own success.

Perl is one of the few languages associated with the web that was really pre-web. It's because of Perl's inspiration that we have PHP and Python. So while the language evolved, it was never web centric at heart.

Another great thing about Perl was in the early days of the web it appealed to both real coders and script kiddies. But as time went on the script kiddies tended to move on to languages like PHP, so only the pros are really left.

The last issue with Perl was that it was never a favorite of computer science programs, so it was always a bit of a hackers language at heart. So there is a wonderful community around Perl, but it makes it very hard if you run a shop to find kids out of school who know the language vs. Java back in the day (and other languages today).

But I know a few coders who still really love Perl in hearts, so while the popularity hasn't grown I would say the language does have a very hard core dedicated following.

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#56

Post by bane »

michaelpinto wrote: post #55

Perl was a victim of its own success. Perl is one of the few languages associated with the web that was really pre-web. It's because of Perl's inspiration that we have PHP and Python. So while the language evolved, it was never web centric at heart. Another great thing about Perl was in the early days of the web it appealed to both real coders and script kiddies. But as time went on the script kiddies tended to move…

> The last issue with Perl was that it was never a favorite of computer science programs

It's funny, it found a home for a long time in various linguistic programs.

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#57

Post by enknamel »

adregan wrote: post #12

I compared perl and JavaScript: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Perl%2C%20JavaScript&... And they both have a similar decline.

How does Google calculate interest? What's it normalized against? The overall decline might just be a function of the decline of software engineers as a percentage of the internet using population over time.

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#58

Post by jafaku »

tomjen3 wrote: post #47
jafaku wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which popular language nowadays doesn't have closures? Even the so hated (by HN) PHP has had that for many years already.

Python is often claimed not to have closures but that isn't really true, what it doesn't have is anonymous functions. It does have a lambda statement, but that is limited to a single statement. So what you end up writing is more akin to: def multiplier_maker(a): def temp(b): return b * a return temp That is because Python allows you to declare a function anyware, even inside other functions.

> what it doesn't have is anonymous functions

If it's not anonymous it's not a closure though.

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#59

Post by geekwerks »

Death by a thousand cuts...PHP cut it off at the knees because it was trivialy easy to do web apps on a shared host; Perl hosting was far harder. Ruby came on the scene, and stepped in as a spiritual successor to Perl. Perl 6's infinite development cycle sapped the life out of the community. All of which led to fewer modules being added to, or updated on, CPAN. Fewer fresh modules drove more use to other languages that did have the fresh modules

I.e. a really nasty downward spiral that leaves perl occupying the same space as COBOL and FORTAN - a language used in massive legacy systems, but rarely used in new systems unless implemented by ancient wizards.

One the upside, pretty soon Perl wizards will be able to charge the same rates as COBOL & FORTRAN wizards...

Re: Why is perl losing its touch?

#60

Post by erikb »

jonathankoren wrote: post #34
erikb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree. There's nothing you need Perl for, and nothing it specifically offers. Like if you want to do something in Wordpress you can only use PHP, no choice. If you want to code a Linux driver you have to use C. If you want nice features like awesome readability you choose Python. If you want awesome power you use some kind of Lisp or Haskell. There is not a single (well known) reason for using Perl. Even if…

No language handles regular expressions as easily as Perl. Perl's power has always been in its power to do text processing. That said, it's objects and pointers are a joke. At least Perl 5's are. As for Perl 6, I don't know. It couldn't hold my attention for 15 years.

Why is AWK or SED not easy?

So yeah. There are a few languages which are quite good at text parsing nowadays. Another key argument was the huge amount of packages. But most languages have that now. There are also lots of scripting languages who can be written quite fast, like Python or Ruby. That's what I mean with there is not a single thing left that you really need or want to use Perl for beside having used it the last decade already. For everything that Perl can do there is at least another tool that is as good.

But all of that is not a shame. Every language will go that path, especially one that is so common as Perl was. Everybody wants to copy the best, until one day it's not the best anymore.

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