A loophole in immigration law is costing thousands of American jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: A loophole in immigration law is costing thousands of American jobs

#61

Post by dennisgorelik » Sun, Feb 22, 2015, 4:20 PM UTC

chrismcb wrote: post #59

dennisgorelik wrote: post #54

The article implies that american workers deserve better pay than foreigners and even deserve legal protection that would put discriminate foreigners in order to give american workers their jobs back. There is something deeply wrong with that attitude.

I don't think there was any implication that the American worker deserves more, or that the foreigner deserves less. Just that is what the rates are. And yes, you can't invite a foreign worker into America to displace an American. Most countries have that rule, what is wrong with attitude of a country trying to protect its citizens?

1) The title itself claims "costing thousands of American jobs" assuming that Americans somehow deserve these jobs over foreigners.

2) Even if most countries discriminate foreign workers, that does not make it right.

3) Discrimination (if it is not based on skills) is making economy less efficient.

Re: A loophole in immigration law is costing thousands of American jobs

#62

Post by dennisgorelik » Sun, Feb 22, 2015, 4:34 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #8

The problem with H1-B is that it is temporary in nature and the person gets booted from the country if fired. That depresses wages and is also fundamentally unfair to the immigrant. H1-Bs should be converted into greencards after 3 years. Also, anyone graduating from an America college should get a greencard.

There is no need to invent things here. Simply removing caps from H1b quotas and employment-based green cards would drastically reduce discrimination of foreign workers.

Re: A loophole in immigration law is costing thousands of American jobs

#63

Post by jes » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 1:09 AM UTC

A_COMPUTER wrote: post #22

evanpw wrote: post #15

Let's say for the sake of argument that every Indian immigrant displaces one American from their job. Under what moral calculus is that a bad trade? The per-capita income in India is almost exactly 10 times less than in the US. By American standards, keeping someone from leaving India seems pretty equivalent to condemning them to life-long poverty. Can you imagine someone making (with a straight face) the argument th…

Because I am legally and morally compelled to pay taxes to my country, and in exchange my country is legally and morally compelled to look out for my interests and well-being--not to find the fastest and most economical means to replace me. It's called the social contract, that is my moral calculus.

I agree that you are legally compelled to pay taxes, but why do you say that you are morally compelled to do so?

Democracy is a kind of majority rule, isn't it?

If the majority votes to take 50% of my income in taxes, and uses the money to start wars around the world, I stumble when it comes to saying I'm morally obligated to pay those taxes.

Thoughts?

Re: A loophole in immigration law is costing thousands of American jobs

#64

Post by savanaly » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 4:01 PM UTC

powertower wrote: post #51

savanaly wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Indians are much richer than sub-Saharan Africans. But go over there and tell them that they have a moral obligation to allow African immigration. People will laugh at you, if you're lucky. That wouldn't make them right. Humans are humans, doesn't matter what country they were born in. Just because people have been doing it since forever doesn't mean it makes any sense.

> Humans are humans, doesn't matter what country they were born in.. Doesn't matter to who?... The guy in the US? The guy from India that wants to replace the guy in the US? The guy in Africa that wants to replace the guy in India? And how does the guy in India feel about the guy in Africa taking his job or lowering his salary, does his stand still stand - or was it one-sided all from the start? Most humans do see na…

But surely at least the commenters of HN can see that the country you are born in is pure chance? And it's really important to remember that when thinking about whether workers from one country or another should be able to work for someone else in another country.

Re: A loophole in immigration law is costing thousands of American jobs

#65

Post by powertower » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

savanaly wrote: post #64

powertower wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are humans, doesn't matter what country they were born in.. Doesn't matter to who?... The guy in the US? The guy from India that wants to replace the guy in the US? The guy in Africa that wants to replace the guy in India? And how does the guy in India feel about the guy in Africa taking his job or lowering his salary, does his stand still stand - or was it one-sided all from the start? Most humans do see na…

But surely at least the commenters of HN can see that the country you are born in is pure chance? And it's really important to remember that when thinking about whether workers from one country or another should be able to work for someone else in another country.

It's not really the "born" part that's important.

There is a lot more to a person than that single second you are born in... Like the other 1-100 years of your life, most of which you spend in that country and become part of it.