Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications • Hacker News Board

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#131

Post by pg » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:14 PM UTC

tianaco wrote: post #41

I feel like this is going to work against me - in a really serious way. First of all, I really liked knowing that I had a one in three chance of a woman, Jessica Livingston, reading my application. I liked how the application felt like a college application; they judge you based upon your potential and what you've done in your circumstances, not like an investor who says: "What experience and traction do you have?".…

As I explained here, the alumni are going to read applications in addition to us, not instead of us:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=908585

I'm not sure what you meant about a "one in three chance," but it sounds like you're misunderstanding how we read applications. We don't split them up. Also, there are 4 YC founders, not 3.

The way it usually works is that Robert, Trevor and I (separately) read and rank the applications. Then Jessica looks at the top-ranked ones to see if there are any red flags we've overlooked.

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#132

Post by boredguy8 » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:15 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #123

tianaco wrote: post #41

I feel like this is going to work against me - in a really serious way. First of all, I really liked knowing that I had a one in three chance of a woman, Jessica Livingston, reading my application. I liked how the application felt like a college application; they judge you based upon your potential and what you've done in your circumstances, not like an investor who says: "What experience and traction do you have?".…

If your intent was to bring attention to yourself in the 11th hour, you may have succeeded. That attention, however, may not be what you wanted. As a male, I will not pretend to imagine what you go through because of our differences. I can only speak from my experience as a wimpy appearing introvert who has had earn everything I've ever had because hardly anyone has ever given me anything. I do not mean to offend and…

I work with a few smart women and find that I constantly have to redirect attention and praise back to them when the two of us are working on a project together. If I had a dollar every time I said, "Thanks, but Sarah really championed that approach," or "Yeah, Sarah really pushed the vendors to meet our price point: we wouldn't have been under budget without her," I'd be a far richer person.

"Wimpy male introvert" is hardly an exceptionally rare stereotype within IT, and 'not being given anything' is hardly the same as 'having things taken away', which I constantly see happening.

And it's not like a few posts on news.yc is a massive time-sink that's 'energy' that needs to be redirected internally.

Honestly, I'm so glad I'm not a woman in IT. Not only do you get crapped on, you get told not to complain when it happens.

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#133

Post by adrianwaj » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:15 PM UTC

bravura wrote: post #126

bravura wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reply to adrianwaj: For the application, I mean. Usually the convention is 1 user = 1 person. I wasn't thinking about the Y-combinator application when I registered my account 450 days ago and when tianaco occasionally commented on threads. I don't see this as a problem.

In reply to adrianwaj: Look, if I'm submitting my application with my karma score and words alongside you (+ tianaco's score and words (under your name)), then if words and score are important to PG for the app, do you think I should feel the playing field has been even with the duplicity? I went through my submissions and they are 100% mine. I went through my comments and can say with confidence they are 95% mine. T…

Well, I am concerned (not in a personal sense) that tianaco should start commenting more without her gender displayed, and she can then gauge herself in a gender-free environment here on the forum -- the "male coders" looking at her app could've then seen them.

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#134

Post by Major_Grooves » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:17 PM UTC

although some might consider it positive discrimination, you should really get involved with an organisation like: http://www.astia.org/ They have been great to jlees. In fact she is attending the Silicon Valley event next week.

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#135

Post by dusklight » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:17 PM UTC

1. Is it possible for an application to be rejected after having been read by just one alumni, and no one else?

2. Are the readers given a specific list of criteria by which they are supposed to judge the applications, or is it just basically anything they want?

3. Trust is great, but do you have any way to find out if a reader approves an application because it is from a friend, or if a reader rejects good applications that are too similar to the application that was submitted by a friend?

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#136

Post by tianaco » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:17 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #123

tianaco wrote: post #41

I feel like this is going to work against me - in a really serious way. First of all, I really liked knowing that I had a one in three chance of a woman, Jessica Livingston, reading my application. I liked how the application felt like a college application; they judge you based upon your potential and what you've done in your circumstances, not like an investor who says: "What experience and traction do you have?".…

If your intent was to bring attention to yourself in the 11th hour, you may have succeeded. That attention, however, may not be what you wanted. As a male, I will not pretend to imagine what you go through because of our differences. I can only speak from my experience as a wimpy appearing introvert who has had earn everything I've ever had because hardly anyone has ever given me anything. I do not mean to offend and…

No, this thread was a reaction to the announcement that was just revealed. I feel entitled to state my opinion after I spent so much time tailoring my application to a specific rubric. I'm sure you understand.

The fact that my concern is controversial, but perhaps resonates with people, is why it got so much attention.

HN exists as a forum for discussion and I raised a discussion that is germane to this announcement. A lot of other entrepreneurs have raised similar concerns in different ways... which is why this thread is so popular.

I got under people's skin. But for you to call it "whiney" is really out of line.

My concerns about this announcement as just as valid as other's people's as evidenced by the amount of upvotes.

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#137

Post by nadam » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:18 PM UTC

tianaco wrote: post #41

I feel like this is going to work against me - in a really serious way. First of all, I really liked knowing that I had a one in three chance of a woman, Jessica Livingston, reading my application. I liked how the application felt like a college application; they judge you based upon your potential and what you've done in your circumstances, not like an investor who says: "What experience and traction do you have?".…

So you have a little prejudice:) about:

- successful applicants i.e. outside-of-the-box people may not have an idea about who are outside the box people. - most of these outside-of-the-box people are males an can be simply categorized as 'coders'.

In fact I don't get your problem exactly. I suppose that there can be 2 cases, which is true?

A. You are a 'female coder' and you think that 'male coders' have such a prejudice that a female coder cannot be as good as a 'male coder'.

B. You think that you really are different from these male coders (perhaps you are not a coder), so even if these guys don't have prejudice about female coders, they think so differently from you, that they will not relate to your application.

A. and B. are very different things, and I could not find out what your problem is from your description.

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#138

Post by the_real_r2d2 » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:19 PM UTC

maxklein wrote: post #40

Does YC not run a risk here of falling into a reinforcement loop where each generation gets more and more "perfect" from the POV of the current generation, leading to highly specialised but unadaptable individuals a few generations down the line?

Adding some randomness could help to avoid over-fitted populations. Then you could prevent to converge to a sub-optimal state and force the system to look beyond of what it seems the best.

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#139

Post by tianaco » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:20 PM UTC

Major_Grooves wrote: post #121

tianaco wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we had 2 submissions - One headed by my partner with 4 founders, another headed by me with 2 founders. The other founders are all men. I am the first face on our application video. We did that to set us apart from the rest of the videos. I'm done with my applications, and confident that we made good applications for the people that we initially thought were going to review them... but not for unknown founders who…

Sorry but if you've got breasts then you'll have to get used to guys looking at them. There was a recent study from NZ that found that 47% of men's first glances at a women were towards their breasts. It's just biology. Also take in to account your average male coder might not have seen any for a while - well it is male dominated (sorry - "got to wait for the liquidity event to have a liquidity event!")! ;) wrt to as…

It's not about them looking at my breasts. More often they look away from me as if I don't exist at all.

Re: Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

#140

Post by andreyf » Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 10:20 PM UTC

jeremymims wrote: post #128

tianaco wrote: post #41

I feel like this is going to work against me - in a really serious way. First of all, I really liked knowing that I had a one in three chance of a woman, Jessica Livingston, reading my application. I liked how the application felt like a college application; they judge you based upon your potential and what you've done in your circumstances, not like an investor who says: "What experience and traction do you have?".…

Wow. Y Combinator has funded female cofounders before and it is my understanding that most batches have had women in them. If anything, I think they'd almost be more willing to fund female cofounders because there isn't enough data out there to know if or how female cofounders in YC startups deviate from the success rate in a notable way. Since Y Combinator is about funding startups that are likely to succeed, this i…

If anything, I think they'd almost be more willing to fund female cofounders because there isn't enough data out there to know if or how female cofounders in YC startups deviate from the success rate in a notable way.

Being "more willing" to fund female cofounders will bias the question of how they deviate from the success rate, no?