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Dell XPS 13 Review

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Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#231

Post by CalRobert »

zanny wrote: post #144
listic wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. I wish ThinkPads had that. I'm ok with the way Ubuntu works on my old X200s, but I'm uncertain about the device support for latest ThinkPad models. Do you know of similar official support for Ubuntu in other decent laptops? EDIT: Oh wow, ThinkPad X240s and X250, along with many other models, are certified. http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/desktop/models/?query=&c... I wonder how am I supposed to use fingerpr…

https://system76.com/laptops I have a Galago Ultrapro personally, but if the XPS 13 2016 is any good (and they don't jump the shark like Lenovo is, what with the Intel bootguard DRM bullshit - hell if they put coreboot on any model XPS notebook I'd be all over it instantly like butter on toast).

What do you think about it? I had an UltraPro for one day and returned it because the keyboard was so bad as to be essentially broken. The case was also about as solid as a warm stick of butter. Their support also tried to convince me I was typing improperly which broke any trust I had with them; it's a well-documented issue they eventually confessed to knowing about and ignoring.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#232

Post by IanOzsvald »

ekianjo wrote: post #173
MetaCosm wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was excited until I read 8GB max... that can't be right can it? What modern developer machine would have an 8GB cap?

I'm curious, but why do you need more than 8Gb for ? I can think of a few potential uses of more RAM (large video files edition, R on very, very big data sets) but 8Gb seems reasonable for most tasks. Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day ?

I use a Dell E6420, as a data scientist I kept breaking the default 8GB so upgraded to 16GB which is almost always fine. I won't go >8GB most days but when I do, I need it (else I lose hours trying to partition data and think about ways to subselect). 16GB for data science seems a sensible minimum for the folk I know. I'm on Linux Mint 17 (Ubuntu 14.04) + Python.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#233

Post by josteink »

dagw wrote: post #218
ekianjo wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, but why do you need more than 8Gb for ? I can think of a few potential uses of more RAM (large video files edition, R on very, very big data sets) but 8Gb seems reasonable for most tasks. Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day ?

Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day? Maybe not every single day, but easily 3 days a week. Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time, without having to try to get too clever. That being said, I currently have an M…

> Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time

Suffice to say, you probably don't represent the average developer, or power-user. I can write code just fine without having to resort to 32GB data-sets. I think most other developers can too.

Not saying I don't acknowledge that some people may have such a need, but I don't see this is a big enough issue for enough people, to think it warrants making the already expensive developer edition even more expensive.

If you need 3-digit Gigabytes of RAM, have you considered just remoting into a server which has all the juice you need instead? In the age of the cloud, why on earth do you need all that power in your laptop? That just seems awfully backwards.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#234

Post by josteink »

e12e wrote: post #207
jdonaldson wrote: post #23

I had been trying to find a decent developer's laptop for some time, and it led me to the xps 13 "developer edition" (the predecessor to this one). Keep in mind that I really wanted to like that laptop. However, in the end, I went back to my macbook air. There were just too many small headaches to deal with. I'll list them here. I'd like to know if there are any improvements this time around. I'd be curious to know i…

I very much doubt that any pc laptop married with any given Linux distro will ever be a better macbook experience than a macbook running OS X. I understand that a lot of people like working in a Mac -- but unless you point out what don't like on the Mac it's hard to see why you'd switch. Personally I love bare xsession+monad+apt-get of Debian, along with a sprinkle of schroot for running testing and sid in parallel,…

> I very much doubt that any pc laptop married with any given Linux distro will ever be a better macbook experience than a macbook

And thank god for that. If Linux was reduced to a Mac-like experience, I would probably move on to something else, and quickly.

I need something for a power-user, something configurable, something which puts me in control. I need something which I can adapt to my needs, to flow with my work-flow. Something I can mold as I see fit. That is the promise of Linux.

What I don't need is ooh shiney rounded & patented buttons at the cost of everything else, with the late Steve Jobs having made all the decisions for me, with everything cast in stone. Oh sorry. Ceramics. My bad.

If you like it that way, good for you, feel free to stay on the Mac. A Linux laptop is supposed to be different. If you consider that to be at odds with a Macbook OSX experience, you're entitled to your opinion and you're probably right.

But that doesn't make the Linux experience bad. It just means it's not for you.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#235

Post by dagw »

josteink wrote: post #233
dagw wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day? Maybe not every single day, but easily 3 days a week. Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time, without having to try to get too clever. That being said, I currently have an M…

> Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time Suffice to say, you probably don't represent the average developer, or power-user. I can write code just fine without having to resort to 32GB data-sets. I think most other developers can too. Not say…

I don't see this is a big enough issue for enough people, to think it warrants making the already expensive developer edition even more expensive.

Sure, I agree. And I'm sure I'd be happy with this machine as secondary coding machine. But I do dream of one day getting a single laptop that covers all my needs.

have you considered just remoting into a server which has all the juice you need instead?

I do the few times I need 100+ GB of RAM, and to be honest it's a bit of a faff. Getting your tool chain set up, copying huge data sets back and forth, working out how to install proprietary software and the licensing there of. I'm unbelievably ecstatic that the option exists when I need it, but I'm equally glad every time I don't have to deal with it. Most of time my data sets aren't that big and all my work fits comfortably in 64 GB of RAM.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#236

Post by josteink »

siegecraft wrote: post #12

I'm surprised that Dell managed to get back to this point, but I think Apple is no longer a no-brainer if you want a "nicer" build quality, and you can start differentiating based on support. I never thought I would buy a non-Apple laptop again, but I've actually been eyeing the Dell XPS and a friend's recent experiences w/ AppleCare makes me want to take every effort to find an alternative hardware vendor, assuming…

> I'm surprised that Dell managed to get back to this point, but I think Apple is no longer a no-brainer if you want a "nicer" build quality, and you can start differentiating based on support. I never thought I would buy a non-Apple laptop again

As someone not fond of companies using patent-lawsuits to ban competitors from market, I can assure you that me, and lots of people like me, never once considered Apple a company it would be ethically defensible to buy hardware from.

If you're a software-developer, why would you fund and reward the lawyers trying to use software-patents to ban your right to deliver a product? It's suicidal and doesn't make sense.

Yes. Maybe these days Apple has kinda backed out a little and stepped down from the thermonuclear bit of the patent-throne. But they were the ones who started it, and we do remember. They're not getting our money.

In the mean time we're very happy companies like Asus and Dell are chugging out quality products without the guilt and bad karma associated with patent-trolling.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#237

Post by josteink »

mrjatx wrote: post #22
siegecraft wrote: post #12

I'm surprised that Dell managed to get back to this point, but I think Apple is no longer a no-brainer if you want a "nicer" build quality, and you can start differentiating based on support. I never thought I would buy a non-Apple laptop again, but I've actually been eyeing the Dell XPS and a friend's recent experiences w/ AppleCare makes me want to take every effort to find an alternative hardware vendor, assuming…

Man, I finally a few years ago got completely comfortable with OSX and scripted so much stuff that I can set myself up basically anywhere in 5-10 minutes. Now I'm stuck on a MBPr and get to watch all of these amazing new PC laptops come out that are so innovative. All of the hybrids, convertibles, detachable convertibles, rotatable convertibles. I'm so envious. Come on Apple, seriously.

> Come on Apple, seriously.

By depending on one non-standard HW supplier, you are building your own jail. Have you considered breaking out?

Get out there. Try these wonderful gadgets you want so badly. Taste freedom. Freedom feels good.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#238

Post by blinkingled »

For those looking for a Ultrabook form factor workstation with 16GB RAM capability - the HP ZBook 14 looks like a great choice. Anandtech review here - http://anandtech.com/show/8186/hp-zbook-14-review-mobile-wor... . You don't get a ton of battery life out of it but there's a choice of bigger battery.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#239

Post by plq »

I got a custom built 13.3" Sony Vaio S. It's got 12GB ram, 1TB disk, Intel i7 at 2.9Ghz, 1600x900 display, Blu-Ray Reader/DVD-RW Combo, 3G modem, gbit ethernet, both VGA and HDMI output, 3 USB ports (2 of them 3.0) SD Card and MemoryCard and cost 987 GBP plus tax which I got back on my way out. Oh and it's got very good Linux compatibity out of the box. Resumes from ram without a hitch, I only reboot when I need to get something done with the kernel. I'm writing this while listening music via my bluetooth headset. Battery sustains around 2 hours of work, but it used to be better. It was leaps and bounds ahead of what Apple had to offer with its Macbook PRO line at the time at 2/3 of its weight, and I fear still is.

I'm looking at Dell's machine and yes it's got a higher resolution display (but is it better at that display size? I hope!), and presumably an updated processor, but that's it. No nic, no disk spinner, less ports, no VGA, etc. Call me old-fashioned but I can't consider a laptop without a couple easy ways to get data on/off (e.g. ethernet ports, disk spinners) as a development workstation.

Top that and I'll pay you.

And shame on you, Sony, for not being able to properly sell today's market leader that you came up with two years ago. Shame on you.

Re: Dell XPS 13 Review

#240

Post by masklinn »

josteink wrote: post #233
dagw wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day? Maybe not every single day, but easily 3 days a week. Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time, without having to try to get too clever. That being said, I currently have an M…

> Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time Suffice to say, you probably don't represent the average developer, or power-user. I can write code just fine without having to resort to 32GB data-sets. I think most other developers can too. Not say…

32GB might be somewhat excessive for mainstream developer laptops, but 16GB is not. A pair of VMs (for various MSIE versions, isolated dev environments, ...), an emulator or two (Android, iOS, …), 2-3 browsers open (with many tabs in at least one of them) and an IDE and you've blown way above 8GB working set without working on any big dataset.

I'm currently on an 8GB machine and regularly have to pare down my working set to avoid swapping.

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