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Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

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Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#31

Post by pdkl95 »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #8

I can't speak for the US, but I'm just not buying the fear about the TPP. I honestly can't see the Australian judiciary sending people to jail, or issuing large fines, for sharing media. Suppose the sentencing is mandatory leaving the judiciary with no choice. We'll see how long that lasts, but very well then, I'll happily spend 3 months in an Australian prison for sharing media. I think you'd probably have to book i…

You apparently haven't been keeping up with the news, as this kind of "remote prosecution" already happens. It is not theoretical.

If you want a quick intro to these attacks, I suggest watching the most recent John Oliver episode.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150216/17390930032/john-...

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#32

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

elementalest wrote: post #19
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #8

I can't speak for the US, but I'm just not buying the fear about the TPP. I honestly can't see the Australian judiciary sending people to jail, or issuing large fines, for sharing media. Suppose the sentencing is mandatory leaving the judiciary with no choice. We'll see how long that lasts, but very well then, I'll happily spend 3 months in an Australian prison for sharing media. I think you'd probably have to book i…

They will likely throw a few major offenders in jail as exemplars. For the rest they will probably use various (im-proportionately) large fines to continue to discourage people from filesharing. "How can law enforcement possibly police this?" Given that breaching copyright would be classified as a criminal offence with the TPP, and meta-data access is only for criminal purposes, meta-data and an automated system can…

> Given that breaching copyright would be classified as a criminal offence with the TPP, and meta-data access is only for criminal purposes, meta-data and an automated system can be used. So once the system is in place, very easily.

Okay sure. But this requires me to believe that software developers won't come up with a protocol that anonymises and encrypts my pirate downloads, thereby rendering meta-data and automated systems ineffective.

The risk of imprisonment thing is just nonsense. We've already seen people go to jail for trivial 'hacks', yet cybercrime is still a huge industry.

Your tech savvy mates (that's me and you) will show you how to download pirated media in a way that's safe from the prying eyes of the law, and life will continue.

These proposed laws are farcical because they're dependant on the current way of doing things, a way of doing things that leaves a meta-data trail. I smell a software solution, and we already know how quickly the entire world can switch file sharing protocols.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#33

Post by walterbell »

mercurial wrote: post #26
walterbell wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a proposed US-EU equivalent of the Australia - Hong Kong arbitration panel for ISDS (Investor-State Dispute Settlement), http://www.computerworlduk.com/blogs/open-enterprise/ttip-up... "So what the European Commission is proposing with the dispute resolution chapter is how future clashes with the US over those key social constructs should be resolved. And the answer is: by a three-person arbitration panel. T…

AFAIK, the ISDS has been met with enough opposition that it has been essentially expunged from the treaty.

References would be helpful, the citation above is only a week old, and Computerworld has been following the subject closely.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#34

Post by pjc50 »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #8

I can't speak for the US, but I'm just not buying the fear about the TPP. I honestly can't see the Australian judiciary sending people to jail, or issuing large fines, for sharing media. Suppose the sentencing is mandatory leaving the judiciary with no choice. We'll see how long that lasts, but very well then, I'll happily spend 3 months in an Australian prison for sharing media. I think you'd probably have to book i…

Have you missed Kim "Dotcom" being arrested in New Zealand at the behest of the FBI?

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#35

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

pdkl95 wrote: post #31
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #8

I can't speak for the US, but I'm just not buying the fear about the TPP. I honestly can't see the Australian judiciary sending people to jail, or issuing large fines, for sharing media. Suppose the sentencing is mandatory leaving the judiciary with no choice. We'll see how long that lasts, but very well then, I'll happily spend 3 months in an Australian prison for sharing media. I think you'd probably have to book i…

You apparently haven't been keeping up with the news, as this kind of "remote prosecution" already happens . It is not theoretical. If you want a quick intro to these attacks, I suggest watching the most recent John Oliver episode. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150216/17390930032/john-...

Did you link to the right video? We still have plain tobacco packaging in Australia. Can you tell me where to skip to in the video that talks about remote prosecution of individuals with regard to piracy.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#36

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

pjc50 wrote: post #34
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #8

I can't speak for the US, but I'm just not buying the fear about the TPP. I honestly can't see the Australian judiciary sending people to jail, or issuing large fines, for sharing media. Suppose the sentencing is mandatory leaving the judiciary with no choice. We'll see how long that lasts, but very well then, I'll happily spend 3 months in an Australian prison for sharing media. I think you'd probably have to book i…

Have you missed Kim "Dotcom" being arrested in New Zealand at the behest of the FBI?

Did you miss the bit where Kim Dotcom is a free man and running a file sharing company with better user privacy that the previous iteration.

I think the Kim Dotcom saga demonstrates my point of these types of laws being farcical.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#37

Post by pdkl95 »

xnull2guest wrote: post #16
pdkl95 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how much do they pay you to post that "press release"-style post that doesn't actually explain how the TPP would help? You've posted a lot of fear-mongering, but haven't actually shown what would be changed by the treaty. As we already have very little in the way of tarriffs or other barriers to international trade, there isn't a lot that could be done to "improve trade" between US and asia. So why the treaty? The…

I do not get paid to post to Hacker News. That would be a fun job... but alas I am not that lucky. Why do you think my post was fearmongering, specifically? As per the implication that corporations stand a lot to gain from the TPP - you'll see in my post I've said precisely the same thing. I would agree that there is a trend in the direction of corporate sovereignty - another large trend in this direction is what Bru…

> Why do you think my post was fearmongering, specifically?

You're entire original post - and part of this one - is trying to stir up fears about the future financial stability of the US. This is fear mongering because you haven't actually shown how the TPP fixes this other than to say it is necessary in some vague and highly theoretical ways.

> You can be sure that the TPP is in the interest of the US's strategic financial and diplomatic future

No, the TPP is in the strategic financial - and diplomatic - future of corporations, while removing much of the features of government that might stop those corporations. Allowing foreign corporations the power to wield a criminal codes or civil liabilities - that they largely get to make up - over people in the US can only be "in the interest of the US" in the "we had to burn the village down to save it" sense.

I would consider this kind of end-run around the amendment process to pass things that would obviously not pass a legitimate legislative process to be the very definition of trying to undermine the authority of the constitution, aka "sedition".

Any legitimate concerns about specific details of trade or the US's relationship with the growing economies in asia can be brought up as normal legislation, where they can each be argued about on their own.

> nor is it fearmongering.

lol

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#38

Post by xnull2guest »

chinathrow wrote: post #29
xnull2guest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not get paid to post to Hacker News. That would be a fun job... but alas I am not that lucky. Why do you think my post was fearmongering, specifically? As per the implication that corporations stand a lot to gain from the TPP - you'll see in my post I've said precisely the same thing. I would agree that there is a trend in the direction of corporate sovereignty - another large trend in this direction is what Bru…

It's in the US interest, but it can't be in the non-US interest then. There's always another party to contracts like that. And one side is always getting screwed when the US is involved.

I'm not sure I exactly follow. Sometimes agreements and relationships are "zero-sum" - A gains implies B loses.

Other agreements are not win-lose ("potluck versus buffet").

In the case of the TPP the US is looking to establish itself, its rules and its influence in the Pacific - to the chagrin of China. While partnerships between the US and China continue to strengthen, some key areas have always kept the two from being too close. Financially China poses a threat to the US it hasn't faced in close to a century. The Renminbi represents a real (but not grave) threat to the dollar and established economic dominance. China refuses to acknowledge a fixed Western world order and in these pursuits it plays fair and nonviolent but hard.

Obama gleefully reminded Chinese delegates that it championed TTIP before the birth of the TPP. At this level of the game, when nations are not in full competition, there's some level of gain-and-lose. That is to say: yes - one side is getting screwed by the TPP (China). But only if the US plays its cards right. If it doesn't, it will be China that screws the US. And let us not discount the dreams and ambitions rest of the Asia-Pacific or the rest of the world.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#39

Post by walterbell »

ekianjo wrote: post #28
acd wrote: post #22

What I do not like about these deals which always have funny acronyms TPP, ACTA, SOPA is that they are done in secrecy. If the one who are drafting these agreements are acting in the publics best interest, why are the deals and drafts drawn up in secret? If you have nothing to hide and have good honest intentions why hide your drafts? That makes me come to the conclusion that the deals they are drafting are not in th…

> the public will know anyway. Yes, but that does not mean the public can actually do something about it (not saying we should not try, though). Political lobbies can be more powerful than citizens, it would not be the first time it happens.

> that does not mean the public can actually do something about it

If public businesses and consumers believe they can or cannot do something about it, they are correct (remember SOPA/PIPA? http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/media/2012/01/5094412/...). Choosing which something is the important part. Learning about the proposals is a start.

Why did most countries drop their opposition to criminalization proposals? Possibly because implementation will be delayed until the government who sign the agreement have left office, http://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2014/10/17/latest...

"... while the last leaked draft of the TPP, dated November 2013, showed strong international opposition to this criminalization plan, Canada now seems to be the only serious hold-out. This may, suggests James Love of Knowledge Ecology International, be because this new draft gives some countries extra time to implement the agreement – meaning that current governments won’t necessarily have to carry the can for their decisions."

Public opinion matters, otherwise why delay implementing the proposed rules?

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#40

Post by pdkl95 »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #35
pdkl95 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You apparently haven't been keeping up with the news, as this kind of "remote prosecution" already happens . It is not theoretical. If you want a quick intro to these attacks, I suggest watching the most recent John Oliver episode. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150216/17390930032/john-...

Did you link to the right video? We still have plain tobacco packaging in Australia. Can you tell me where to skip to in the video that talks about remote prosecution of individuals with regard to piracy.

Keep watching - the corporate stuff starts a few minutes in, with the tobacco industry throwing around threats to various countries legislatures to stop those legislatures from passing Australian-style packaging laws and other public-health regulations.

edit: if you're in a hurry, try starting at about 5:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6U...

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