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Stripe: Bitcoin

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161–170 of 374 posts

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#161
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Bitcoin though is it isn't a currency. If it was a currency, if $1 USD was paid for a Bitcoin, that USD would be destroyed, not pocketed. The only people promoting Bitcoin are those who have something massive to gain, e.g. they own a lot of Bitcoin or they have vested interest in the ecosystem. Stripe facilitating this would allow them to start gathering Bitcoin, at a rate of .5% per transaction, and…

> The problem with Bitcoin though is it isn't a currency. You mean it isn't a fiat currency. All that means is that Bitcoin's value isn't backed by a government, but is instead derived purely from the ability for someone to spend it. > If it was a currency, if $1 USD was paid for a Bitcoin, that USD would be destroyed, not pocketed. What? Since when? If you spend USD to buy EUR, the person on the other side of the tr…

Bitcoin still doesn't fit the definition of currency on its own. The fact that Bitcoin has a value is more because of speculation. People early on mined it and therefore own larger amounts for relatively little effort or cost. Now it's worth more and they have reason to perpetuate its growth. Investors now have joined gamble and speculating by putting in $100s of millions of real cash in hopes they can help stabilize it and make their current Bitcoin worth 10x to 100x more just by getting more people to adopt it. There are some people who accept Bitcoin in exchange for services, and more accepting it for goods, however it's those base Bitcoins that were mined that are the problem.

Re: USD for EUR - As you mentioned above those are at set rates between fiat currencies, and therefore there is practical reasons for the currency having a value. Bitcoin's value is mostly dependant on demand, which is being pumped up and perpetuated by investors and those with vested interest in the ecosystem including those who own Bitcoin and larger amounts of Bitcoin - who all want the value to go up 10x - 100x.

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said is 100% correct, which is why companies accepting bitcoin need to give the entire ~2-3% discount to customers. Very few credit cards will match 2-3% rewards, and from the sellers perspective bitcoin is better than credit cards payments. To name a few benefits: - There are no chargebacks - Funds are available immediately (though transferring from BTC to USD may take a day) - You can accept payment from a…

Is it legal to pass the discount onto customers? The only businesses I've seen giving a discount for paying in cash are (some) gas stations.

I assume it would depend on where you live but it is in the US.

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#163
post #19

Greg Brockman from Stripe said this is exactly what it would take for BTC to take off commercially a year ago: (after discussing why regular people probably don't want to store value in BitCoins) > However, Bitcoin has huge potential as a way to transport value. It’s surprisingly difficult to move money today ...compounding the issue, value transport becomes especially challenging as soon as there’s a regional border…

I thought he said BTC wouldn't succeed as a payment mechanism, but might as a settlement and clearing one.

You can specify amounts in USD and get the exact amount back regardless of BTC fluctuations, which seems close to his original premise.

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#164
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a merchant gives me 1% off to use Bitcoin so they don't have to pay the transaction fees... I'm not going to take it. Even at 5%. I'd rather have the ability to do chargebacks if something goes wrong.

Would you do it for a percentage greater than your CC rewards if you trusted the seller? For example, Amazon has never screwed me on a single purchase. If I have an issue they fix it, which is a large part of why I often pay 5-10% more for products on Amazon.com instead of XYZ.com. Would you use BTC for a 2% discount with sellers like this?

Purse.io provides 25% discounts to shop on Amazon with bitcoin. Pretty incredible - discount comes from liquidating Amazon gift cards ($15b in circulation).

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#165
By enabling BTC payments, does this mean that Stripe will change the list of "prohibited" uses? That list is in line with what are usually high-risk card transactions, but by removing that risk (almost) entirely, it seems like this could finally enable a wave of new commerce on diverse and neglected categories.

I'm probably assuming a no as they'll want to keep the card AND bitcoin and not do jut BTC, but a man can dream.

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#166
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Bitcoin is the Linux of payments. Everyone always talked about the potential to completely change the desktop (consumer use) but the real impact was the network/backend (Sun/NT machines) So Bitcoin is exciting to me but not as a payment method. But as a backbone it gets really interesting.

I like the analogy, but not being a finance person I have no idea - is Bitcoin particularly compelling "as a backbone"?

Less bitcoin itself, but the blockchain technology that backs the currency has a number of novel uses. The idea of a public, cryptographically secure and verifiable ledger could be used in everything from voting to domain name registration.

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it that different from buying bitcoins by meeting physically with someone and paying cash? or do you buy bitcoins from your personal computer? I guess no way will be truly anonymous

I have read about people buying bitcoins by sending cash through the mail. That is perhaps the most anonymous one can get.

The seller has your mailing address. Mining is probably the most anonymous way to do it, and by far the least cost-effective. There are, however, ways to launder your bitcoins if you really want them to be anonymous, regardless of how you acquired them.

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#168
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world's simplest reasons why you might pay something using bitcoins is simply when this is the only way, or cheapest way, or safest way to make a transaction. Example #1: some merchants are hit really hard with fraud, such as intangible goods paid by international credit card transactions. So hard that they decided to stop selling internationally. These merchants discover that Bitcoin re-enables them to sell inte…

Hmmm, some of these hypotheticals are wishful thinking. For example 1, it's a double edged sword. As a seller, no international chargebacks sounds like a wet dream! As a buyer, why would I use bitcoin internationally when I can't reverse my transaction if they don't deliver? Example 2 seems legit for now. If and when bitcoin becomes more mainstream, you'll see an increased transactional cost from overhead and risk mi…

> As a buyer, why would I use bitcoin internationally when I can't reverse my transaction if they don't deliver?

Sometimes reversibility just doesn't matter. The merchant might be 100% trustworthy (like Amazon). Or as another example I once rented a VPS for a month from Russia. I paid in bitcoins because it was $3 or $4 so I simply didn't care if the VPS provider didn't deliver (submitting a chargeback request for such a low amount is not worth my time), but at the same time I didn't fully trust the merchant with my credit card info (how securely do they protect/encrypt it? could they be hacked? etc).

> Since we don't gift each other bitcoins, Example 3 isn't a problem.

You completely avoided the main point of my example #3. And that's very stupid for you to say this. I gave some to my family, I could say this proves you wrong. Even Coinbase set up a page to give bitcoins last Christmas because it's common for enthusiasts to give some to friends & family: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/105032873402/give-the-gift-of-...

> Example 4 is laughable because in the last week, four Bitcoin exchanges were hacked (or robbed by the owners - still TBD) and people who had their coins in those exchanges lost it all.

This is completely irrelevant to example #4. My point was that a Bitcoin transaction cryptographically authorizes only the transfer of a specific amount to a specific address, and nothing else. In contrast a CC transaction lets a fraudulent merchant place any charge for any amount at any time. This is a substantial undeniable security advantage that Bitcoin has over credit cards.

> Skimming CC numbers is for sure an issue for credit cards, but as someone who has had their credit card skimmed, my issuer locked my account within 2 hours of fraudulent activity, called me, and eventually gave me my money back.

You were lucky. But your cute story doesn't mean credit card fraud is a solved problem. In many cases the customer has NO RECOURSE for fraud. For example you cannot chargeback a transaction made more than 60 days ago. Some fraudulent merchants pretend to act legitimately but stall shipping (eg. claim delays, issues, etc) for 60 days specifically to exploit this fact and exploit the fact customers don't know about this condition. Or if your PIN code is stolen and a fraudulent transaction is made with the PIN code, you will typically be held liable (check your credit card issuer's fine print, for example: http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/common/pdf/borrowing/revolving_...)

> How many Mt. Gox users got their money back?

Give your money to a fraudster and he will run away with it, no matter if its bitcoins or dollars. How much money was permanently lost to the Bernard Madoff ponzi scheme?

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#169

why do we - normal people - want to handle a currency free of any legal oversight or reversibility/traceability even in the case of outright theft? see this story of ours just from the past month - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9053621 they know exactly who did it and why/how it happened... what advantage is there to the coins themselves being completely untraceable, transactions completely irreversible? suppo…

Because legal oversight and traceability are often bugs, not features. The middlemen required to deal with those two things are often bloated, slow to react, corrupt, expensive, and in some cases, all of the above.

The idea that "I want to send some value to someone else" requires jumping through so many hoops, and having so many bites taken out of it, in 2015, is a bit silly.

How do chargebacks work with cash? Exactly. Yet we still use it.

This honestly smells like the government anti-encryption argument. "You have nothing to hide, so why do so?"

Re: Stripe: Bitcoin

#170
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>when I can just pay with my dollars directly? Credit card transactions take something like 180 days to confirm. Within those 180 days one can issue a chargeback. Bitcoin transactions take ~10-60 minutes (depending on the required number of confirmations) and cannot be clawed back.

Which only really happens if the customer files a dispute, the dispute is valid, which in turn means the customer is aggrieved. Why would I want to forfeit that ability again?

Here's an example that really happened to me:

I legitimately wanted to use my Canadian credit card to buy something in the US and have it shipped to me in Vietnam but the merchant naturally was unwilling to take on the chargeback risk and I was unable to complete the purchase.

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