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Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

andjosh.com

21–30 of 135 posts

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#21
post #11

Flipboard addresses the accessibility issue in their article. While moving to canvas limits it for now, at least they are making an effort to incorporate it, which is more than can be said for most sites.

They're saying "Whooshy effects are more important than disabled people accessing our app. We'll let those people in when it doesn't impact our fancy UI." It could definitely be worse, because they could ignore accessibility completely, but that doesn't make their approach good.

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#22

I think the question is - better for who? Clearly for many businesses, walled gardens, avoiding "openness", works. That might be because they use it to create an artificial moat to protect their business (arguably LinkedIn here), or because it's the best way to serve their customers (Steve Jobs' argument, not saying I agree). For customers, if the best experience is gained through a native app, then a native app make…

Native apps and open standards are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary, there are ways to make the data exportable both on the app side and cloud side. The reason companies tend to go for their own protocols is mostly greed. "Because why should I support RSS if I can't monetize it?". That's basically exploiting the common good without giving anything back.

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#23

Perhaps a bit naive - these companies that start by embracing open standards then pull back from them are just pulling a classic bait-and-switch, with a bit of freeriding off open-source efforts thrown in. They bootstrap their user base and arrive to market quickly by using tools built by others. Then once they grow and gain market and mind share, they can start closing themselves off, walling the garden. And it's ju…

The moment such business stops being "idealistic" and makes that "logical step" is the moment it stops caring about providing value for customer - it reduces the value provided to monetize them better.

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#24
I totally appreciate the point, and I think there's a certain amount of validity to it. Open standards and interfaces make it better and easier to consume data – in theory.

That said, there are complexities. Monetisation is the obvious one; if you have an app or service that relies on advertising—Twitter is the obvious example—then the first thing that you'll find is an app that strips your advertising out.

It also seems quite reasonable that a company like Twitter is entitled to payment by people who want to use the data they aggregate. Sure, they're not the publisher, but they do provide the infrastructure. We could hypothesise about replacing that with an open, peer-to-peer infrastructure, but nobody has done so yet.

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#25

True - and hopefully you'll keep that up with your new site/app once marketers, CFOs, and investors get involved, I think that's when things start growing walls and controls. As soon as someone mentions "monetization," hopefully it's only explored as charging your users a reasonable rate for a good service.

Pretty much any time someone mentions "monetization" they mean abandoning "reasonable rate for a good service" and "tricking users into paying more for subpar service" instead".

The whole talk about "monetizing" and stuff reminds me of 'dsirijus comment[0], "Any sufficiently advanced business model is indistinguishable from a scam."

[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8227941

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#26

I think the question is - better for who? Clearly for many businesses, walled gardens, avoiding "openness", works. That might be because they use it to create an artificial moat to protect their business (arguably LinkedIn here), or because it's the best way to serve their customers (Steve Jobs' argument, not saying I agree). For customers, if the best experience is gained through a native app, then a native app make…

Native apps and open standards are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary, there are ways to make the data exportable both on the app side and cloud side. The reason companies tend to go for their own protocols is mostly greed. "Because why should I support RSS if I can't monetize it?". That's basically exploiting the common good without giving anything back.

I don't think it's fair to describe that as greed. The fact that a business can't monetise a service it provides is a bad thing; if Twitter for example provided access to everything over an RSS feed, the first thing you'd see would be applications that simply stripped or refused to display advertising etc.

I don't see why it 'exploits the common good' to want to charge or monetise a service you provide.

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#27
SMS isn't an open protocol. So using it as an example of "what to do" is strange in and of itself.

This article falls flat because the author never defines what they mean by "open." SMS is a walled garden, it is controlled by the cellular industry in case the author missed that. Costs you actual cash money to use too (!) which might be a detriment to many.

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#28
post #4

From the Flipboard page: > You cannot build a 60fps scrolling list view with DOM. I simply do not believe that. I have no problems scrolling around the internet. And the examples they give (flipboard.com/@flipboard) give me no clue about what their problem with the DOM is. I find it really hard to imagine you couldn't do that in the DOM. I wonder what is going on over there.

Their use model is specifically on mobile devices, and it is certainly true that many sites run absolutely abysmally on smartphones/tablets. While these devices are powerful, they're still weak compared to most of our desktop machines. Flipboard spent an enormous amount of effort making a rendering to canvas platform, humorously to allow an "open" option aside from their app (which makes the complaint about it in the…

> I suspect they did a lot of analysis

I heard the same "argument" when Facebook went from HTML to native. Personally, I never attribute to expertise what adequately can be explained by stupidity.

Re: Your App Is Not Better than an Open Protocol

#30
post #2

So we should never create anything new, then?

No, just don't be greedy and don't try to capture all the value you're creating. Using open protocols, you can let your users build stuff that you could have never imagined yourself, and guess what - that only means more users for you.
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