Live data from Hacker News

Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

changelog.complete.org

81–90 of 113 posts

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#81
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disk space is cheap. If it really is a problem for you then work around it. But for most of us installing dev files makes sense if we ever need to compile something against those .h files.

Even if it is, bandwidth isn't particularly cheap.

I think with compression most headers are probably tiny compared to even the ads on a large widely read news site.

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#82
"GEOM, however, supports only RAID0, RAID1, and RAID3. It does not support RAID5 or RAID6 in software RAID configurations!"

Looks like the author is still learning FreeBSD and hasn't read all relevant docs yet. 'man 8 gvinum' clearly says that raid5 _is_ supported:

"To create a raid5 array on disks /dev/ada1 /dev/ada2 and /dev/ada3, with stripesize 493k you can use the raid5 command: gvinum raid5 -s 493k /dev/ada1 /dev/ada2 /dev/ada3"

I'd take this article with a big grain of salt.

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#84
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So systemd is not a system of separable utilities then. Remove journald and systemd doesn't work.

Anyone could implement their own journaling subsystem against the api and it would work... it doesn't have to be journald. not sure what your point is...

Writing a third-party journal reader is officially discouraged: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/journal-fil...

     Instead of implementing your own reader or writer for journal files we ask you to
     use the Journal's native C API to access these files.

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#85
post #12

He seems to think in his comparison Debian comes on top. However, the points which he thinks are where Debian is stronger illustrate precisely where Linux has lost its way. Laptop support is lacking -- assuming you care about laptops, and care about suspend working out of the box. Guess what, suspend didn't work out of the box under Debian, either. Storage, he's forgetting that zfs is both a filesystem, and a volume…

I never said Debian comes out on top. In fact, I went out of my way to say "use the right tool for the job." There are cases where FreeBSD is better and cases where Debian is better. To take something as complex as a modern operating system and say one or the other is always better would be foolish. But, to address the questions: suspend does work out of the box for many laptops on Debian, including suspend on lid cl…

Things are looking a little brighter on the ZFS pool shrinking front thanks to Delphix working on device removal: http://blog.delphix.com/alex/2015/01/15/openzfs-device-remov...

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#86
post #12

He seems to think in his comparison Debian comes on top. However, the points which he thinks are where Debian is stronger illustrate precisely where Linux has lost its way. Laptop support is lacking -- assuming you care about laptops, and care about suspend working out of the box. Guess what, suspend didn't work out of the box under Debian, either. Storage, he's forgetting that zfs is both a filesystem, and a volume…

I'm typing this on my Debian X200. Suspend works just fine.

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#87
I too started out on FreeBSD. Another feature that I don't think you mentioned, and don't know whether it's supported with ZFS was union mounts, where you can mount one filesystem atop another (as many times as you'd like) and thereby get yourself a COW filesystem. I think there was a method to run FreeBSD from a CD-ROM using this?

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#88
post #31

That's a good overall article - I've been switching back and forth between FreeBSD and Debian for several years now, and I never spend more than a couple of month without using one of them. The one thing that surprised me was his take on FreeBSD's package management system, pkg. PKG is relatively new, having been released in late summer 2012. Prior to that, FreeBSD relied on the ports collection, which was (is) a vas…

"Am I using dpkg here? What about aptitude? Or should I just roll w/ apt-get?"

Just use "apt". It's new to Jessie, though.

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#89
post #7

The article makes some good points, and I'm glad it didn't just rail on one single part/component since linux distrobutions have so much variety. ZFS is really a killer FS, and unfortunately Linux just doesn't have a native answer just yet (although BtrFS does have some promising parts). There's a lot of people either threatening to switch or are switching to one of the BSD's as a result of being dissatisfied with th…

FreeBSD has been in the early stages of working on a launchd port for 10 years now. It seems like progress with openlaunchd is going well, but there are certain things related to Mach IPC that need to be ported to the upstream FreeBSD kernel to get it working. I do recall some old version of launchd entitled launchd_xml was ported to pfSense, but it's one that puts the XML parser into PID1, so it's not desirable. IMH…

I hope they don't use xml as the final config format. It would be nice to see re-use of the pkg config parsing library (libucl).

Re: Debian developer prompted to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, there's only a single package repository for each major FreeBSD release. The ABI doesn't normally change within major releases, so packages built on FreeBSD 10.0 will work on FreeBSD 10.1 (and vice verse). A pkgng repository can contain older versions of packages, but "/latest" is tree of symlinks to the most recent versions in the repo. The FreeBSD Ports Tree isn't tagged, so there's nothing equivalent to…

Interesting, I'll have to test some of the features to see how they stack up. In ubuntu, main = FOSS supported by Canonical, restricted = non-FOSS supported by Canonical, universe = community FOSS, multiverse = community non-FOSS. Those usually don't get updated or messed with except for security. There is also the backports repo for package updates for stable releases.

The short version is that, as I understand it, the FreeBSD Foundation does release engineering different than Canonical or SPI, largely for historical reasons, and that as an end user, you would periodically run "freebsd-update cron" or subscribe to "freebsd-announc@freebsd.org" to check for updates to FreeBSD itself or run "pkg upgrade" to check for updates to third-party packages. It's really, really simple compared to the "good" old days of cvsup and "make world" and roughly equivalent to "apt-get upgrade" or even "apt-get dist-upgrade" (or their YUM analogues).

The FreeBSD equivalent of "main" would be FreeBSD itself, with source/binary updates via freebsd-update or source updates via Subversion. The FreeBSD Ports infrastructure handles package building for _all_ third-party software (Xorg, GNOME, KDE, Emacs, Perl, etc.), which would be the equivalent of "universe" and "multiverse". The Ports infrastructure has integrated license auditing (see https://raw.githubusercontent.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/mast... and https://raw.githubusercontent.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/mast...), which allows you to accept or reject licenses at package build time.

There is no equivalent to "restricted". The binary package repository maintained by the FreeBSD Foundation itself only contains free software, meaning that it includes only software whose licenses allow (a) redistribution of the original sources (like an FTP mirror), (b) selling copies of the original sources (like on CD-ROM), (c) free redistribution of the binary package (e.g., via FTP), (d) selling of the binary package (e.g., via CD-ROM), and (e) automatic license acceptance (which would exclude software like dccd that have EULAs which must be accepted prior to compilation/installation).

There is no equivalent to "backports" or "security". Supported FreeBSD releases get regular bugfixes and security updates as described above. As FreeBSD is a volunteer effort, there just aren't enough people involved to make maintaining alternate ports trees feasible. The ports tree does get frozen and tagged at each FreeBSD release to facilitate package building, CD-ROM manufacturing, and FTP distribution, but those tags aren't maintained except as historical markers. If you want security updates, you need to stay abreast of the latest commits the ports tree (whether via portsnap [source], subversion [source], or pkgng [binary]).

Post reply on HN