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Why the British Are Better at Satire

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#11

Post by sanoli »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #3
rhino369 wrote: post #2

I wonder how difference between TV show productions affects this. Broadcoast TV shows in America are expected to run 22 episodes a year. In the Thick of It has made about that many episodes over 7.5 years. I don't think you can get people to watch that much biting satire in such a small time period. But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters. If not good,…

>But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters. If not good, at least some humanity. What's more human than trying and failing (or being beaten by the system)?

>What's more human than ______________?

Fill in the blank. Different cultures have different conceptions of what's more human, or what kind of drama moves them most.

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#12

Post by laumars »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #10
rhino369 wrote: post #2

I wonder how difference between TV show productions affects this. Broadcoast TV shows in America are expected to run 22 episodes a year. In the Thick of It has made about that many episodes over 7.5 years. I don't think you can get people to watch that much biting satire in such a small time period. But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters. If not good,…

> But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters. If not good, at least some humanity. Perhaps it's a misunderstanding, but when British people "take the piss" they're not trying to suggest someone is subhuman, it's more often than not just playing with the absurdity in everyday life. It's not done with malice in mind, we "take the piss" of ourselves as much…

I did once read a comment somewhere that said it's a British quirk to insult those you like while being friendly to those you dislike.

I could see how this might seem absurd to an outsider looking in. But, being English, it's definitely an observable idiosyncrasy for myself and my circle of friends.

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#13

Post by abroncs »

Someone1234 wrote: post #8
jgrahamc wrote: post #6

Is there any equivalent in the US of Private Eye: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye ? Here's a recent cover: http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=1383 and another: http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=1378

Daily Show/John Oliver/Colbert are the closest the US comes as far as I know. Maybe South Park occasionally? Although both the Daily Show and Colbert have now wrapped up. And John Oliver is more like 60 minutes (before they sold out) than Private Eye.

Daily Show/Colbert are so incredibly dumbed down and mainstream though. And South Park has the annoying tendency to reiterate its point throughout the episode.

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#14

Post by jonnathanson »

rhino369 wrote: post #2

I wonder how difference between TV show productions affects this. Broadcoast TV shows in America are expected to run 22 episodes a year. In the Thick of It has made about that many episodes over 7.5 years. I don't think you can get people to watch that much biting satire in such a small time period. But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters. If not good,…

"But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters."

I used to work in TV series development. One of the ongoing legends in the TV development business is how every American TV exec loves Fawlty Towers, and even though everyone's tried to adapt it for American TV, none of their attempts has been successful. The reason being that American audiences need the protagonist to be "likable," and making the John Cleese character "likable" totally saps the comedic power of the show.

I suspect there's more to it than that. Fawlty Towers plays to some decidedly more British cultural issues surrounding class and social climbing. Also, it's really freaking hard to find someone who can fill Cleese's shoes. Nevertheless, the likability issue is a big one.

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#15

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

higherpurpose wrote: post #5
shazzy wrote: post #4

On the subject of Prime Minister's Questions here are some clips showing how rowdy it can get; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1iL2jGZiZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUqhqsfE0YQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVs1jN85w10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUX9LvYlAps

Those look a lot like political rap battles.

You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU

(Edit: NSFW)

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#16

Post by runewell »

I do love the PMQs of British politics. US Congress is not nearly as entertaining, we tend to have hour long monologues with lots of charts and little debate.

US politics does have it's moments though ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPwW8nBVc0g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d_FvgQ1csE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcsNbQRU5TI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvq2tha6heU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u54H2sV-0Hc

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#17

Post by Swizec »

laumars wrote: post #12
ZenoArrow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters. If not good, at least some humanity. Perhaps it's a misunderstanding, but when British people "take the piss" they're not trying to suggest someone is subhuman, it's more often than not just playing with the absurdity in everyday life. It's not done with malice in mind, we "take the piss" of ourselves as much…

I did once read a comment somewhere that said it's a British quirk to insult those you like while being friendly to those you dislike. I could see how this might seem absurd to an outsider looking in. But, being English, it's definitely an observable idiosyncrasy for myself and my circle of friends.

I think that in the US this is primarily a male trait. Guys are supposed to make fun of their guy friends. But you'll never see girls doing the same to each other. The cool ones will do it to/with their guy friends.

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#18

Post by joshuapants »

jonnathanson wrote: post #14
rhino369 wrote: post #2

I wonder how difference between TV show productions affects this. Broadcoast TV shows in America are expected to run 22 episodes a year. In the Thick of It has made about that many episodes over 7.5 years. I don't think you can get people to watch that much biting satire in such a small time period. But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters. If not good,…

"But I think in the end, American audiences want to see the good in people, especially the main characters." I used to work in TV series development. One of the ongoing legends in the TV development business is how every American TV exec loves Fawlty Towers , and even though everyone's tried to adapt it for American TV, none of their attempts has been successful. The reason being that American audiences need the prot…

Maybe I'm weird but I found Basil to be likable. He's like a more competent, better-spoken Homer Simpson.

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#19

Post by stupidcar »

As a Brit, I think this rather overstates the case. Take The Thick Of It. The article says there's no likeable protagonist, but Hugh Abbott, Nicola Murray, Peter Mannion are not unsympathetic characters, even if they're generally incompetent. I don't find the tone of Veep to be particularly less excoriating than The Thick Of It. If anything the members of Selina's team seem to be even more abusive to one another.

Whenever there's a discussion of US vs UK comedy and satire, I see the same cliches about unlikable protagonists and winners vs losers being trotted out, and I wonder if I'm watching the same shows as everyone else. Are the characters of Arrested Development likeable winners? Or Delocated? Or Bojack Horseman? Or Girls? Or Always Sunny?

Re: Why the British Are Better at Satire

#20

Post by 1_player »

Swizec wrote: post #17
laumars wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did once read a comment somewhere that said it's a British quirk to insult those you like while being friendly to those you dislike. I could see how this might seem absurd to an outsider looking in. But, being English, it's definitely an observable idiosyncrasy for myself and my circle of friends.

I think that in the US this is primarily a male trait. Guys are supposed to make fun of their guy friends. But you'll never see girls doing the same to each other. The cool ones will do it to/with their guy friends.

I've read somewhere that there's no real appreciation and respect between two men unless they make fun of each other.
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