Why life is absurd • Hacker News Board

Re: Why life is absurd

#41

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 12:43 AM UTC

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #27

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #26

In [The Fable of the Dragon Tyrant]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLecJrXpOEU ), Nick Bostrom explores the fact that we refuse to see the massive crime being perpetuated against every human being simply because of the enormity of it. That we have our health ripped from us without consent is monstrous. Yes, yes, [Calico]( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_(company) ) exists. 100 million in the face of death is a…

Richard Hamming has a talk titled "You and Your Research", in which he discusses what sorts of things you should be working on. The summary is that you should be working on important problems. He then lists three of the most important problems that no one should actually work on, time travel, teleportation, and something else that I can't remember off the top of my head. The thing Hamming understood, but which Bostro…

> The whole point of philosophy is to invent a fiction that lets you cope with reality in a productive way.

I think that if there's one thing that philosophers agree on, after arguing with each other for a couple of millennia, it's that the point of philosophy is not to find a clever way to lie to ourselves - it's to find out something true.

Re: Why life is absurd

#42

Post by sarreph » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 12:44 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #29

pcmonk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think human intelligence hits an asymptote due to mortality. There's only so deep an individual can go, and a limit on how much you can replace depth with breadth. I don't know exactly what you mean by "human intelligence", but in general we get deeper not by stretching vertically, but by moving vertically, if you follow the metaphor. Many software engineers today don't even have a passing familiarity with the de…

Very good point! To the extent that we can build on abstractions and black boxes we stand on the shoulders of giants. BTW, perhaps s/human intelligence/science & technology. Does this really work about as well (e.g. leaky abstractions but better than nothing) in all disciplines? Learning math is a pretty much a 'climb the ladder' experience. You don't have to literally discover it all for yourself, but you do still h…

I often think about how humans manage to build upon previous knowledge, and how much more difficult it gets to add another abstract layer, but the point* you just made about computers designing increasingly complex paradigms really got me thinking/scared!

* > Isn't it only a matter of time before computers are designing and replicating devices that are sufficiently beyond our capability to understand how they even operate? Or synthetic compounds created by computer algorithms that cure disease but we have literally no idea the mechanism of action? Maybe in a very few problem domains today this is already the case.

Re: Why life is absurd

#43

Post by allemagne » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 12:47 AM UTC

neuronic wrote: post #20

xlm1717 wrote: post #11

The absurdity of life is the absurdity of existence: that there is anything at all is completely absurd and it's doubtful that this will ever be explained satisfactorily.

You can even split that into steps and levels. Absurdity progresses from the entire universe right down into details like the existence of coffee or oil. Two black liquids that just happen to exist and fuel the world. Can you imagine modern society without them? But what bugs me most is that a universe without an entity to perceive and observe it is just such a waste of ... energy? It's almost like the existence of t…

>It's almost like the existence of the universe implies the existence of an observer. That the formation of intelligent life is an expected result of the universe existing.

Seems like a logical stretch, but very poetic.

Re: Why life is absurd

#44

Post by tempestn » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 12:53 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #29

pcmonk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think human intelligence hits an asymptote due to mortality. There's only so deep an individual can go, and a limit on how much you can replace depth with breadth. I don't know exactly what you mean by "human intelligence", but in general we get deeper not by stretching vertically, but by moving vertically, if you follow the metaphor. Many software engineers today don't even have a passing familiarity with the de…

Very good point! To the extent that we can build on abstractions and black boxes we stand on the shoulders of giants. BTW, perhaps s/human intelligence/science & technology. Does this really work about as well (e.g. leaky abstractions but better than nothing) in all disciplines? Learning math is a pretty much a 'climb the ladder' experience. You don't have to literally discover it all for yourself, but you do still h…

Great thoughts (in this and your other comments here). I have to think that for better or worse, even if human lifespans are drastically increased, it is inevitable that we will reasonably quickly reach the point where computers essentially know more than we do. 500 years might give us time to climb a much higher ladder of knowledge, but computers don't have to climb it at all; they will all have access to all the knowledge, effectively immediately. Also, a computer will have access to extreme depth and breadth of knowledge, which would be impossible for a human, and which could lead to all kinds of cross-discipline breakthroughs.

Of course there's also the middle ground option, where the clear distinction between human and computer becomes blurred, and eventually meaningless.

Re: Why life is absurd

#45

Post by guard-of-terra » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 12:53 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #6

I couldn't agree more that our humanity places truly absurd limits on our existence. You get, if you're lucky 30-40 years of solid productivity after 20-30 years of training. Maybe enough time to create one or two solid accomplishments before your capacity for thought, and soon enough your capacity for life is extinguished. Also consider the economic argument. On the one hand, the level of investment experts make in…

Even worse, you have around 15 years to find a soulmate, create a family and have all your babies. Men more, women maybe even less.

And you are also supposed to both have a career and find your place in the world meantime.

Re: Why life is absurd

#46

Post by guard-of-terra » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 12:55 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #29

pcmonk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think human intelligence hits an asymptote due to mortality. There's only so deep an individual can go, and a limit on how much you can replace depth with breadth. I don't know exactly what you mean by "human intelligence", but in general we get deeper not by stretching vertically, but by moving vertically, if you follow the metaphor. Many software engineers today don't even have a passing familiarity with the de…

Very good point! To the extent that we can build on abstractions and black boxes we stand on the shoulders of giants. BTW, perhaps s/human intelligence/science & technology. Does this really work about as well (e.g. leaky abstractions but better than nothing) in all disciplines? Learning math is a pretty much a 'climb the ladder' experience. You don't have to literally discover it all for yourself, but you do still h…

I think technology will be easier, not harder.

In 150 years your car will be made from carbon only and will have tiny simple motors in its wheels. Plus some magic energy source.

Re: Why life is absurd

#47

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 12:58 AM UTC

We long for permanence, but death comes anyway.

We long for a real basis for morals, but if all we are is matter obeying the laws of physics, morals cannot be anything more than arbitrarily-made-up rules.

We long for meaning, but that's hard to come by too. It usually comes down to randomly picking something and assigning meaning to it, and claiming that now you have meaning. But if all you are is a machine made of atoms that is headed for death, what kind of real meaning is possible?

Here is a deeper level of absurdity. Humans have randomly evolved to have these aspirations (immortality, morals, meaning), but those aspirations can't be fulfilled because all we are is collections of atoms randomly evolved by an uncaring universe. This is a sick cosmic joke. If the materialist starting point is correct, then our persistent aspirations cannot be fulfilled in the universe that exists.

Or else the materialist view of the universe is incorrect. Then our aspirations are not a sick cosmic joke - they are evidence that we are more than the materialist view says we are.

Re: Why life is absurd

#48

Post by sparaker » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 12:58 AM UTC

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #22

Is it really any more absurd than not living ? The whole article – an enjoyable read – seems written with the assumption that there exists a universal constant: human life. Everything that does not match our needs and ever changing desires is absurd. I say that a perfect world would be even more absurd! Let's not forget that meaning – or the lack of thereof – may as well be a human construct. Life is not meaningful n…

If we didn't had this absurdity we might just have a more absurd life than we have currently.

Re: Why life is absurd

#49

Post by aikah » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 1:00 AM UTC

chuhnk wrote: post #5

As someone who believes in Islam this is an extremely thought provoking piece and I love it. It makes you think and question existence. It makes you wonder about what we're doing here and how life would be different if we existing at a different point in time and space. Just such interesting topics for conversation. Life and the universe.

While the question of the existence of god as "creator of all things" is a interesting one, anything related to religion can be easily dismissed as a fairy tale or failed philosophy, as the three religions of the book tell virtually nothing about the nature of creation but are more concerned about which "prophet" did what and that mankind should basically blindly follow teachings that cannot be questioned under penalty of death.

"thought provoking piece" ? no Plato is though provoking, Kant is thought provoking. Descartes is thought provoking. Islam and the rest are barbaric and thrive on ignorance, not enlightenment. They are hate pieces that are contextual to the era they were written,not by "a creator" but by men.

But I must admit, Islam is a little more perfect than the other two, as the ethnocentrism of Judaism and the gross absurdity of trinity will not stand that longer. The fact that it tries,however to build up on the other two doesn't save it, from a meta-physical point of view.

Logic teaches us than building something on absurdity only leads to more absurdity.

Re: Why life is absurd

#50

Post by keslag » Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 1:01 AM UTC

The only absurd thing about life, is that through the process, something was created that understood the absurdity of it all.