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The Software Revolution

blog.samaltman.com

51–60 of 397 posts

Re: The Software Revolution

#51
The last few posts from Sam Altman have been deeply troubling and make me worried for the future of YC. He presents leftist ideas as fact without evidence of serious critical thought or even basic economic education.

"The previous one, the industrial revolution, created lots of jobs because the new technology required huge numbers of humans to run it."

This is factually wrong, but its easier to demonstrate with a thought experiment. Imagine you are a weaver or a smith. You have dedicated your life to mastering the craft and slowly produce products by hand. Now a textile factory or a foundry opens up. You will suddenly find it impossible to make your products profitably. Not only will you be out of work, but so will all of your colleagues in the rest of the country.

Or imagine you are a farmer, and then the green revolution happens. In 1870, 80% of the US population was in agriculture. Today, its under 2%.

In both of these cases, it will seem like the end of the world to the displaced workers. But new technology frees their labor for new purposes and uplifts the standard of living for everyone in society.

Re: The Software Revolution

#52
For anyone interested in exploring the topic of human labor becoming increasingly unnecessary in more depth, there was a very forward thinking (published in 2009) book written about this by a computer scientist called "Lights in the Tunnel". The author goes as far as to propose new societal structures to maintain order as this process unfolds. Highly recommended.

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/1448659817

Re: The Software Revolution

#53
> What can we do? We can’t make the knowledge of these things illegal and hope it will work. We can’t try to stop technological progress.

I think the best strategy is to try to legislate sensible safeguards but work very hard to make sure the edge we get from technology on the good side is stronger than the edge that bad actors get.

> But I worry we learned the wrong lessons from recent examples, and these two issues—huge-scale destruction of jobs, and concentration of huge power—are getting lost.

Yet, we still promote "beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission". You can't have both -- "legislative safeguards" and a bunch of entrepreneurs running around begging forgiveness when they create destruction.

Re: The Software Revolution

#54
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income. People may scoff, but this is one of the extremely rare ideas that can draw significant support from both sides of the isle in the US. There are pockets of strong opposition to the idea on both the right and the left, but I can only hope that the far left's opposition to basic income continues. That opposition in and off itself makes most politicians in this country take a serious look at the idea.

Two questions: 1. How will this help with wealth that's already accumulated? I get how this will slow further accumulation. 2. How about capital flight? If the US enacts a policy like this, what stops the super rich from moving to other countries?

Two very good questions, but my ideas about those go way off topic.

But with respect to question 1, the most important response is that we can't let the sunk cost fallacy stop us from adopting good ideas.

Re: The Software Revolution

#55
post #24

I don't necessarily buy the "AI can end humanity" thing. As a cliche that's become very easy to repeat, but I've yet to see a postulated mechanism by which it could actually happen that isn't pure SF. The ending of human life would not be so easy for computers to accomplish. But on the subject of concentration of power and the wide-scale elimination of low- and middle-range jobs I think he is dead on. I fear that the…

Sidetrack, but I'm curious. What do you mean by "a postulated mechanism by which it could actually happen that isn't pure SF"?

It reads as if you're asking for a mechanism for a future technological event explained purely in terms of present technology. The whole "existential risk" concerns aren't about what present systems can do, they're about what future self-improving system might do. If we postulate this hypothetical software becoming smarter than humans, arguing about what will or won't be easy for it becomes a bit silly, like a chimp trying to predict how well a database can scale.

Re: The Software Revolution

#56
post #31

One thing I often see repeated is that every new industrial technology initially destroyed some jobs but eventually created a lot of new ones: the cotton gin, the steam engine, the car, etc. That's because these things only did one thing, and by doing that one thing really well they opened a lot of side-niches. It took a lot of time to invent and scale out new machines, so for long periods of time these side-niches w…

Agree that earlier advancements created a lot of new ones. But do you think that lack of globalization in previous instances had a very significant part to play? Especially where and how the cost savings achieved through automation were invested back? (honest question)

I do think that lack of globalization made it easier for societies to achieve good resolutions to internal labor disputes-- globalization prevents employers from going outside a nation's socioeconomic framework to break the negotiating power of employees. But I think this is a linear term in the equation, not an exponential one. Exponential effects always dominate linear ones.

Re: The Software Revolution

#57

I think Sam is incorrect when he writes "The great technological revolutions have affected what most people do every day and how society is structured. The previous one, the industrial revolution, created lots of jobs because the new technology required huge numbers of humans to run it. But this is not the normal course of technology" Jobs were not created in the sense that people were previously doing nothing. Jobs…

> The industrial revolution was the same as other technological revolutions and not distinct from them in that it reduced the exertion and strain put on workers ... the condition of workers improved dramatically in the 19th century

Industrialization, massification, standardization of production and moving to big cities have had tough consequences on worker's life. Charlie Chaplin shows just that. It was a tougher life than traditional community life with flexible work amounts.

You could definitely argue that there was an improvement in caloric supply (except in some countries). For the general happiness, though, industrial revolution has been a tough time.

Re: The Software Revolution

#58
"Trying to hold on to worthless jobs is a terrible but popular idea."

I'm not sure I agree with this proposition. When I was in India, I noticed a large amount of roadwork was being done by men with shovels and other fairly low tech. I asked about it, and was told, to paraphrase, "Sure, we could do it better and faster with machines, but it is better for society to provide employment to those who would otherwise be unemployed."

It is laudable to provide people with the dignity of a job, even it it means some things don't run as efficiently as they could.

While I doubt this would happen to me as a software engineer, I would certainly rather work and have my dignity that sit on my ass, collect basic income, and feel worthless.

Re: The Software Revolution

#59
Economically:

Step 1) People will be paid for their data. Information used by systems doesn't spontaneously come into existence.

Step 2) Get rid of governments. They're inefficient war-mongers. A theatre to obfuscate kleptocracy!

Step 3) See step 1. You can pay me in cryptocurrency. Thanks.

Re: The Software Revolution

#60
A number of sibling comments are pointing out that we're just increasing the level of skill necessary to do the available jobs, drawing analogies to the industrial revolution. I think a key bottleneck in this progression is the mental capacity of the workforce.

Surely there are biological limits on human mental ability, and while we can definitely bend the rules (education, nutrition, nootropics if they actually work, etc.), I doubt that we'll ever be able to make ourselves limitlessly smarter. Even if we are, there will be a serious gap between the have-whatever-makes-us-smarter and the have-nots, and it will be a self-perpetuating gap just like the current wealth gap.

So, what happens when we've used technology to convert all work to mental exertion and creativity, and most of us have run out of brain capacity/agility/juice? We're already in a position where most of the population is not capable of performing the mental tasks which the brave new software world is built with.

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