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A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

nytimes.com

61–70 of 119 posts

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#61
post #26

Public indoctrination through control of the media is easily the most pressing problem of our days. Far more important than that of the global warming, for example, simply because it blocks meaningful discussion on the subjects that really matter. While the public opinion is manipulated both in the US and in Russia, the methods and outcomes are vastly different. For a diligent study of the US media manipulation I hig…

Chomsky, unfortunately, is not the most rigorous guy when it comes to empiricism. Look at how he interpreted the Khmer Rouge genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial#Choms...

He defended them saying that what we said about the Kh R was Western propaganda, etc. Years later, when the truth became undeniable, he defended his actions saying, but well, I couldn't very well know they were so bad and since I didn't have the data, I was still right. Yet, at the time, there we all kinds of information coming out from Kampuchea, all pointing to it being a disaster --even the Vietnamese were utterly alarmed.

So, you really have to be careful with him.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#62

Gee willickers, I sure am glad nothing like that happens here in the good old US of A.

No, actually it doesn't... This stuff may be going on inside Fox News, and I doubt that. But that would be a single TV channel. In Russia they coordinate among all TV channels and there is no dissenting voice. The superiority of western media over what is available from Russia or similar countries is not in the honesty and quality of any single media outfit, but in the plurality of media voices. In the west, there ar…

I do feel Americans are being brainwashed by Television. No, I don't have a DMS-5 classified disorder--discovered yet, but feel too much media is geared towards fueling the economic American machine. I'm not talking just commercials either.

I do see a few groups of people trying to do something different, but they get stomped upon quicker than when I was a kid(in the 70's).

Yes, I know the Machine would breakdown if we didn't put so much into our energy into conforming to society, but just the amount of conformity we currently have is troubling. I'm being vague because I could go on for pages with examples. No, I don't see quite the same level of conformity online, but that herd mentality still seems to win? I've noticed even on HN there are some people who don't post honest alternative views like they used too? I'm not talking arguing just for the sake of arguing either, but I want to hear(within reason) the dissenters too. I can't because they get blurred out so quickly?

I am not a good writer, and having a hard time conveying what I am seeing. I just see people living lives they don't really want, or striving for a life they think they want. Some doing Horrid things in order to get ahead, and when they do get ahead legally--they still do Horrid things in order to stay ahead.(I see this absolute greed in so many families during probate/Trust proceedings. I see well off family members essentially putting brothers and sisters on the streets--over money. I don't get it? They rationalize, and just because it's legal--They proceed?) And some are so distraught chasing the good life they are brought to killing themselfs for something they think they want?

Again--I'm not a good writer, and lost focus, but just the level of conformity to get that perfect mate, house, perfect health, and job seems like it might backfire? I think media plays a huge role in conforming society. Maybe because Russian media is so obvious, it is having the opposite effect, while American media influence is so vague, we fall into their trap in the end? Yes, I know we have the most money, but are we happy?

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#63
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amusing that an article that's supposed to criticize a controlled media system is itself a thinly veiled advertisement. I guess mass media has issues everywhere you look :)

New York times regularly publishes book reviews. They even have that thing they call "NYT Bestsellers" [1]. I'm not sure why that seems problematic to you? [1] http://www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/

As a book review, it's a near-complete failure. You hear very little about what the book recounts about Russian propaganda, which is the main interest; instead we get fluff about his school chess club used his Sovietness to intimidate others. That may be a cute biographical detail fine for a book, but is a waste of limited space in a book review.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#64

Funny story: In Germany there is currently a "movement" of people calling for stricter immigration control (to abbreviate an endless discussion about what they actually want), called Pegida. During one of their demonstrations a comedy/satire show dressed up an actor as a "Russian" journalist from "Russia Today", a news caster/online magazine financed by the Russian state. The Pegida participants were very willing to…

Actually this shows the opposite. The mainstream media is unwilling to engage in discussion with someone who is anti-immigration (unless that person is is an Israeli politician). Instead they do cheap tricks to humiliate the speaker without addressing their actual arguments.

The mainstream media, like all people, has the accusation of "racism" hanging over their heads so they are unable to speak freely on topics like immigration (see [0] for a deconstruction of the concept of racism). I know that the mainstream media in the UK, for example, publish some controversial materials on immigration and culture. But these are always from the perspective of "we're doing immigration wrong". All the mainstream right is allowed to say is that immigrants need to assimilate better. And they are only really allowed to say this about Muslims. They can't say it about Africans outside the context of Islam. And they can't say that assimilation is impossible, or that immigration is not worth the effort.

I don't believe that the Russian press in general is more free than the Western press, but the person you are referring to is correct in that the Russian press is able to say things about immigration that the Western press can't.

[0] http://beyondtheright.blogspot.com/2014/12/why-i-am-not-anti...

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#65
post #61
post #26

Public indoctrination through control of the media is easily the most pressing problem of our days. Far more important than that of the global warming, for example, simply because it blocks meaningful discussion on the subjects that really matter. While the public opinion is manipulated both in the US and in Russia, the methods and outcomes are vastly different. For a diligent study of the US media manipulation I hig…

Chomsky, unfortunately, is not the most rigorous guy when it comes to empiricism. Look at how he interpreted the Khmer Rouge genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial#Choms... He defended them saying that what we said about the Kh R was Western propaganda, etc. Years later, when the truth became undeniable, he defended his actions saying, but well, I couldn't very well know they were so bad and…

I posted this before: Clearly the Cambodian and Indochina people went through an awful period. Pol Pot did extreme things as a leader but the alternative of leaving Lon Nol in power who had people starving was not good either. Whether communism or Islamic fundamentalism, anti-colonialism wars are not fun to live through. Here is a perspective I picked up from the Internet.

"A Finnish inquiry commission concludes that 1 million or fewer people died in the Pol Pot period. The commission documented that at least several thousand of those were because of direct military battles with Vietnam. Part of the discrepancy in death figures comes from those who fail to account for the decrease in births that inevitably happens when a population is lacking adequate food and fighting a war. These missed births get counted as deaths in population projections that assume the birth rate did not change."

"The United States war in Southeast Asia killed 600,000 people in Cambodia according to the Finnish Inquiry Commission. The total U.S.-caused deaths in Indochina run into the millions."

"By 1975, an estimated 10 percent of the Kampuchean population -- 600,000 -- had already died as a result of the Vietnam War. Those 600,000 deaths were caused by U.S. efforts to track down Vietnamese communists. According to the Peter Jennings documentary "The Killing Fields", Cambodia specifically absorbed 500,000 tons of U.S. bombs in the early 1970s."

"The U.S.-instigated war -- and the bombings in particular -- also caused the creation of 2 million refugees, who flooded the cities. The cities then came to depend on the U.S. food aid to live because of the war and the inefficiency of the right-wing Lon Nol regime."

"Hence, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge seized power from Lon Nol in 1975 in the worst possible situation: The people were starving, Kampuchea was the poorest country in the world and one-third of its people were refugees."

"Executions and other deaths"

"The Boston Globe coverage of Pol Pot's death contained this characterization of the Khmer Rouge: "When the Khmer Rouge marched into the capital on April 17, 1975 to establish their agrarian society, they chased out city dwellers at gunpoint, killed anyone suspected of being an intellectual, forced millions into labor camps, and demanded that children inform on their parents. People were often arrested simply for wearing glasses or knowing a foreign language. Money and private property were abolished, schools and temples were shuttered, and medicine and food became scarce. During a nearly four-year reign, as many as 2 million people died of starvation, execution illness or overwork."

"Pol Pot did execute between 75,000 and 150,000 people between 1975 and 1979. Most of those executions took place in the context of war between Vietnam and Cambodia.Vietnam invaded in 1978 and threw the Khmer Rouge out of power.The famous skull-pile pictures from Kampuchea come from a policy especially aimed at the Vietnamese.Serious famine followed again after the final Vietnamese invasion of December 1978, and by the time international aid started it was too late for many. A total of 2 million, or 30 percent of the population, died in the 1970s from the U.S. war, the Pol Pot period and Vietnamese invasions."

"The United States aided the Khmer Rouge in the 1980s, because they were enemies of U.S. foes, the Vietnamese, who had invaded and ousted the Khmer Rouge in 1979."

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, actually it doesn't... This stuff may be going on inside Fox News, and I doubt that. But that would be a single TV channel. In Russia they coordinate among all TV channels and there is no dissenting voice. The superiority of western media over what is available from Russia or similar countries is not in the honesty and quality of any single media outfit, but in the plurality of media voices. In the west, there ar…

A plurality of voices which all say precisely the same things; Israel and US good, Muslims (except for our friends the Saudis) and Russians bad. The only difference between the Russian system and the US system is the Rooskies are more honest and straightforward about it, and in the US, people delude themselves into thinking there is a difference between the world view presented in MSNBC and Fox news. The main differe…

I know plenty of sources who condemn Israel and the US. In the case of "Russia" as a villain, well, often the media doesn't really voice any opinion about who's bad or good, but 200 murdered journalists, no dissenting media, conquering foreign territory, tolerating extreme corruption etc just doesn't sound that well, but is supported by fact.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#67

Regarding Russia's foreign propaganda, a Russian-born person (I think he may not wish to be named) described the situation like this: " Many have wondered why the Russian propaganda machine is spewing out a torrent of such preposterous claims that few people take seriously. They know it will not be believed abroad. The purpose is not that it is believed. The purpose of disinformation was is to destroy trust in all me…

Thank you for letting me realize the reason I distrust most media outlets is because I've been brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#68
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, actually it doesn't... This stuff may be going on inside Fox News, and I doubt that. But that would be a single TV channel. In Russia they coordinate among all TV channels and there is no dissenting voice. The superiority of western media over what is available from Russia or similar countries is not in the honesty and quality of any single media outfit, but in the plurality of media voices. In the west, there ar…

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent We in the west are far more brainwashed than we think...

If you know you are brainwashed, you obviously know the "truth". So how come you know the truth but believe the truth isn't told? You see my point?

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#70
This whole article is rubbish by the way. This guy grew up in London, and here the article describes his TV experience:

> FOR a time, at least, Mr. Pomerantsev, now 37, seems also to have been at home in the raucous world of middlebrow Russian television, making films about gold-digging women (hunting men known as “Forbeses” — as in the Forbes list of the wealthy), ruthless gangsters and sinister cults.

From the sounds of it, he never even worked on news programs, just producing TV shows and movies. And this is someone the NY Times considers an 'expert' to 'uncover' the Russian propaganda machine?

While you want to talk propaganda, how about maybe bringing up the fact that this guy is a Brit. He lives in London, and his family moved away from the Soviet Union before it broke up. How about you talk about the fact he wrote a book, is obviously trying to drum up sales by virtue of the fact he's writing about propaganda while he was himself personally involved in low-brow TV shows.

Yet this makes it to the NY Times and front page of HN by virtue of? It's like getting a producer of real housewives of whatever to talk about US coverage of the Iraq war...

tl;dr - this guy produced shows about:

> making films about gold-digging women (hunting men known as “Forbeses” — as in the Forbes list of the wealthy), ruthless gangsters and sinister cults.

What does he know about propaganda... And HN is eating this up, talking about Russian propaganda like this article had something to say.

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