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Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

gizmodo.com

121–130 of 154 posts

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#121
This article made me think about these idea for a bit. I thought of something that may not be very practical right now, but could be a way forward for these things. I think what a really good home automation system ought to do is a bigger version of what the Nest does.

All of the light switches, blinds, alarms, climate control, music, TVs, etc could be manually controlled at first, but there's a system that watches how you change all of them and coordinates it with your location and the time. It could look for patterns of doing several things in a row or doing them at the same time, and either offer to or just start doing them all together for you. Like you normally turn on lights 1, 2, and 3 when you walk in the door from work, so it notices and starts turning them on for you just from opening the door. Or you normally turn off lights 2 and 3 and turn on the DVD player within 5 minutes of each other, so it starts just turning off those lights when you turn on the DVD player.

Basically, something that notices what you already do and tries to do it for you, without you having to program things in with a smartphone or something. I bet normal people would love that. As long as it wasn't laggy and buggy, of course, which could be easier said than done.

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#122

I've been into the home automation thing since before forever. There have been many periods of excitement over the years. They come and go. As a result I have to admit to a high level of skepticism about the current period. The companies that generate and are influenced by this excitement tend to make two main errors. 1. They don't understand that without an open standard for controls and sensors they are just foolin…

There is the KNX standard, but it's to home automation what the USB standard is to PC expandability. Yes, there's a standard, but saying that you're going to build a KNX installation is like saying you're going to build a USB installation. It can do anything, but anything you want it to do requires specific software, and the software in the KNX ecosystem is either a proprietary lock-in or just plain horrible.

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#123
post #88

I've been into the home automation thing since before forever. There have been many periods of excitement over the years. They come and go. As a result I have to admit to a high level of skepticism about the current period. The companies that generate and are influenced by this excitement tend to make two main errors. 1. They don't understand that without an open standard for controls and sensors they are just foolin…

Open standards are a real issues in the industry. I find it ridiculous that you often have to pay thousands of dollars for software that simply understands those protocols. Not only that, it requires you to jump through ridiculous hoops to do stuff that you could easily do with a reasonably simple Python script. (Look up Niagara AX as an example.) Another problem is APIs and connectivity. Tuning a light on or off sho…

Right, open standards. I think there's an XKCD comic about this...

There's no "open standard for wireless control of a light", because there's not one standard way to do it. For a dollar in parts, I can build a wireless light switch that uses 433 MHz, just like your wireless doorbell.

Oh, you wanted a network of addressable lights? Well now it's a dollar fifty. We'll move to 900 MHz and switch to a ZigBee radio.

Oh, you wanted to address them through WiFi? Well, here's the problem. Light bulb's don't have keyboards to enter your AP+Key. You could try and use WPS with a fixed pin code, but there's another issue. Putting an embedded Linux device that handles POST requests in a lightbulb is rather silly. We'll keep the ZigBee radios, and build a crossover "base station" that has a RESTful XML based JSON buzzword complaint interface.

Did I mention my ZigBee radio only talks with my brand of ZigBee radios?

The problem in making a standard comes down to the radios in the lightbulb. That interface will likely always be proprietary. Even if you get a standardized web interface, no one will be able to make a universal base station for all "smart" electronics. Wink is trying to do that, best of luck to them. I don't see it happening.

http://thegadgetflow.com/blog/wink-wants-new-standard-smart-...

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#124
post #69
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb detectors can have the same problems. I'm not sure if they get contaminated or suffer some kind of other breakdown, but I had to switch out two smoke detectors in recent time due to their propensity for going off on a whim. Of course, normal smoke detectors don't come with the Nest's hefty price tag...

Where were your faulty detectors? My ex-girlfriend's dad used to do testing for a smoke alarm company a while ago. I learned an interesting thing from that. You know what they use to simulate smoke when they test smoke detectors? Hair spray. The fine mist is actually pretty good at tricking the sensor into thinking there are smoke particulates in the air. This also leads to an interesting failure scenario for many ho…

Hairspray is a bad idea IMO. It will leave residue behind. There are cans of fake smoke you can get at the hardware store. I worked on ships and tested smoke alarms that way.

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#125
post #68

There's a few 'handy' things I'd like to do - for example, I am considering replacing my basic central heating/hot water controller with a Raspberry Pi and having features such as a low-heat, vacation mode where the system knows I am 'x' miles away from coming home (tied to my phone's location) and it will fire up everything again. Although I'd consider doing more (ESP8266 modules with MQTT looks interesting, albeit…

I think one of the big problems with the whole "smart home" idea is that people don't consider the use cases. As the article mentions but doesn't really follow through the logic of, trading a light switch flip for a smart phone fumble just isn't a win. But remote access is one of those cases that is a win. I have a relative that spends a lot of time about 1000 miles away for business and he's gotten some mileage out…

I think the main thing that's lacking is good AI for these devices to work well together. The Nest does it pretty well, but the rest of these devices clearly don't.

As an example, I'd love blinds that knew my phone's alarm time and started letting in more light shortly before then, so that I can wake up then, without being woken up well before then.

I've already made windows that open and close based on the outdoor temp and forecast, to store up thermal energy (or lack of) in anticipation of the highs/lows later that day. These could work with blinds to let in/keep out sunlight, depending on the system's thermal needs. You could also tie in awnings.

Between these, you could have self regulating temperature with much less energy use than depending on a traditional HVAC system.

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#126
I am now on my 4 controller "Smartthings (ST)" after dumping Nexia my 1st and for many reasons such as compatibility and monthly costs et cetera, then Micasa Verde whcih was okay but not the creates their tech support sucks and more incompatibility issues, then Indigo6 which was okay for a year but they drove me nuts refusing to speak to my doors locks (schlarge) and had to use vera bridge which couldn't keep proper track of the state of the doors.

All the while I was researching a stand alone controller backed by a big company like google, apple or samsung. Then I found ST backed by Samsung.

So here we are. migrated and all. Learning how to deal with MODES OMG. No variables I can set to do things.

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#127
I am now on my 4 controller "Smartthings (ST)" after dumping Nexia my 1st and for many reasons such as compatibility and monthly costs et cetera, then Micasa Verde whcih was okay but not the creates their tech support sucks and more incompatibility issues, then Indigo6 which was okay for a year but they drove me nuts refusing to speak to my doors locks (schlarge) and had to use vera bridge which couldn't keep proper track of the state of the doors.

All the while I was researching a stand alone controller backed by a big company like google, apple or samsung. Then I found ST backed by Samsung.

So here we are. migrated and all. Learning how to deal with MODES OMG. No variables I can set to do things.

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#128
post #12

I really don't grok why I should want to use my smartphone to move up and down my wifi connected blinders. Yet that's all I see when all of this is pictured: gimmicks. I want to see a demo of a room alarm clock: with rising light (in brightness and temperature), birds chirping, room getting warmer, music/radio a while later.. and the same for going to bed.

Problem of that, and that of the author is that you are entering the world of programming.

You need to be able to enumerate all the possible scenario in your head in order to make a script that looks intelligent. eg: ok I want the light to start when I'm entering and switch them off when I leave. Well unless there is somebody inside (another sensor), unless I just pick the mail (a timer). How do I communicate my intention to come back, so the house does not switch off my netflix download ? If the lock is unlocked, but then shouldn't that generate an alert instead ? That's hopeless for regular user and even for developer that is too much effort for too little benefit.

The other approach is Nest, that is trying to guess. So your home would monitor what you do and try to replicate it. I'm not confident - take an application like Word, they are still irritating after decades of intellisense and a somewhat controlled and restricted environment.

The only one that could work I think would be an Apple bludgeon approach. Your front door and lights and heater work all together nicely following 1 strict scenario. You either adapt to it or don't buy their product at all ( so if Apple decide that morning means raising the blinder and you would rather let them down in order to get clothed, you better learn to have to change your clothes in the bathroom )

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#129
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm becoming more of a luddite or cranky old-man, approaching my mid-30's, but I don't see any benefit at all to using the Nest smoke alarm. I'm replacing tried and true, simple, technologies, with a new device that seems way more complicated than it needs to be.

There's a difference between "there's no benefit at all" and "the benefits don't outweigh the downsides." There are many benefits of the Nest smoke detector. Easier to test. Easier to silence a false alarm. Less likely to wake you up in the middle of the night with a battery warning. Built-in night light. Integration with the thermostat home/away features. Notifications of an alarm when you're not home. Easy identifi…

You're completely right. My original comment wasn't really fair to the Nest alarm device. It clearly does have it's benefits, but not enough for me to overcome the potential issues with the device. I don't think the cost is that terrible, but I don't entirely trust its reliability and durability. A $100 smoke detector is fine if I don't have to worry about buying another smoke detector for a long time, but I don't trust the Nest to provide that longevity.

Re: Why Is My Smart Home So Dumb?

#130
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm becoming more of a luddite or cranky old-man, approaching my mid-30's, but I don't see any benefit at all to using the Nest smoke alarm. I'm replacing tried and true, simple, technologies, with a new device that seems way more complicated than it needs to be.

There's a difference between "there's no benefit at all" and "the benefits don't outweigh the downsides." There are many benefits of the Nest smoke detector. Easier to test. Easier to silence a false alarm. Less likely to wake you up in the middle of the night with a battery warning. Built-in night light. Integration with the thermostat home/away features. Notifications of an alarm when you're not home. Easy identifi…

The difference between real & perceived value is only a price tag away. Be wary when seemingly trivial choices with potentially fatal consequences are made based upon marketing trends and convenience. Perhaps these systems will mature & increase their reliability, but remember that 'latest, greatest' gadget is still just a useful toy...and revenue/data stream for the supplier.

*I work with commercial building automation controls, it's pretty useful tech, but nothing I would ever risk my welfare on.

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