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Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

#51
I've never been able to get behind the ergonomic keyboards - I haven't really run into the RSI issues yet, and the weird layout is too difficult for me to get used to, particularly when I'm switching between desktops and laptops all the time.

I have a Das Keyboard (unlabeled, unfortunately) at home and a Logitech G710+ at work. The Logitech is technically a gaming keyboard or something, so it has a weird set of six mappable function keys on the left edge, which threw me off for a while, and I also found the CapsLock key far too easy to hit, so I just took the keycap off. The Das Keyboard is pretty vanilla, although I do wish I had gotten the one with labeled keycaps, but Amazon was out of stock at the time.

Overall, I prefer mechanical keyboards, but I think that is primarily because the build quality on them is just higher than your typical trash. The mechanical switches are much less mushy than the rubber dome style, although they can collect dust and hair more than more sealed-in types. The biggest thing is that the keyboard doesn't have some bizarre layout, and just adheres to the bog-standard IBM PC keyboard pattern, so that I can switch between keyboards without cursing at the keys that aren't where I expect them to be.

Re: Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

#52
I love the satisfaction of using a mechanical keyboard. The clicking sensation felt as each key has it's own distinct sound while LOC run down my screen. Though I know for a fact that my co-workers do not feel the same way as I do.

Many years ago a classic Model M [1] landed on my desk and was great for a few weeks until I found it broken and used as a doorstop. Hmm.. No-one saw anything.

Spent the next few years on whatever run-of-the-mill logitech/microsoft keyboard came by way. Then I discovered Das Keyboard [2] which was great! It was fully worn in after many heavy metal code sessions (headphones on, mid-day in a room full of colleagues). Maybe I'm a bit overly aggressive with my typing, as soon after I had reluctantly switched to using Das Keyboard "Silent" Model. Another great keyboard, but still not soo silent.

To tell the same story twice - it just didn't work out. My daily typer at the office is now the Matias Quiet Pro [3]. It gets the job done at a reasonable decibel level - or so I think. Moral of the story (if there were any) - respect those who work around you. Any keyboard will do the trick. I should also be more gentle with this thing.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard [2] http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/ [3] http://matias.ca/quietpro/pc/

Re: Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

#54

I use a Kinesis ( https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac/ ), which is a mechanical keyboard with an ergonomic layout. It saved my wrists while writing my master's thesis. I use an MS 4k for a while, but the Kinesis is lightyears ahead in terms of comfort. It takes about a week to learn to type on it, as the columnar layout is very different, and I had to learn to retype some characters (like x, c, and…

I've used these since '98 (and my first one is still in use, through and ADB-to-USB adapter). For someone with pinky pain, they have the likely advantage that there are no long stretches (backspace, return) or tight curls (control/alt/meta). As a vi user, I map Escape to the Kinesis' ‘Delete’ thumb key, symmetrical with Enter, and also swap the up & down arrows to match J & K. Emacs folks will have analogous suggestions.

Re: Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

#55
==Background== I suffer from crippling joint pain. When it attacks my wrists I can't even hold a cup of coffee with one hand. I feel every beat of my heart as a pulse of pain in my wrists. It's not carpal tunnel though so I'm not sure how that plays in to this opinion for your situation but some co-workers have told me this holds for their CT too.

==Mouse== First, your mouse is your worst enemy. The buttons on your mouse are crappy and way too stiff. The constant small motion of clicking, clicking, clicking from the exact same position just sets you up for a fast increase in pain when you go back to your keyboard. I've tried mousing left and right handed to spread the pain. You can hook up two mice at the same time with no change to functionality and you get used to using your other hand fairly quickly. Still not much good though! I've tried trackballs, sideways ergonomic mice, and everything else you can think of. They all suffer from the crappy stiff minimal travel buttons. The thing that works best for me is a touchpad ... and learning to use a light tap! My favorite stand alone is the Logitech Wireless T650 (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/touchpad-t650). Tracks well, handles very light taps, and is nice and big for a touchpad. Next is the Adesso Smart Cat 410 (http://www.adesso.com/products/product-detail-97.html). It's wired and not as big, but it has edges and I like the ability to bump up along the right edge and scroll with one finger rather than the Logitech two finger scroll. It gets the scroll right a bit more consistently. Either of these touchpad allow me to use a keyboard longer.

==Keyboards and Switches== The Cherry switches are ALL too stiff. The reds and browns are best with the reds having an activation force of 45 cN. The browns are smoother but have a 55 cN activation force. And none of them bottom out nicely for me. You can use little o-rings to help a bit. The best way to try all the Cherry switches is with this little device here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N6DXTW4. But I couldn't come up with any keyboard/configuration that really helped me. I've got a good dozen high end mechanical keyboards sitting in a closet. And I found little difference between brands, keyboard layouts, "ergonomic keyboards", etc.

Topre makes what might be a good solution in that they make keyboards with variable key weights depending on key positions. Their boards are about $250 but I've not tried one as their home keys still seem too great a force for me at this point.

For me, my go to keyboard is the Adesso SlimTouch 4400 series (http://www.adesso.com/products/product-detail-82.html). It comes in both USB and wireless versions. The keys are cheapish membrane switches and are still too stiff, but the travel and bottoming out are very good. Unfortunately, it's a bit hit or miss as any particular keyboard might be stiffer than one in another batch. Not sure why though. It also has a built in reasonable quality touchpad for your right hand. There are some new Adessos that I've not tried but look interesting. For example http://www.adesso.com/products/product-detail-149.html. I probably should give it a go.

The best keyboard I've tried is the Razor Deathstalker Ultimate (http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-deat...). The key travel and bottoming out are excellent. The activation force is still too high though. However, this is a silly expensive keyboard because of the built in touchpad/display which, for all the hype and engineering effort they put into it, is a crap touchpad. The sheer number of times a tap isn't turned into a touch or turned into a double tap makes this thing a joke. All the time and effort razer must have spent making the little display do everything imaginable EXCEPT making it work as a touchpad. WTF razer!

Finally, it's worth it to look in to Dragon for voice to text. It's worthless for programming but can help take joint burden away for long text only things. Speaking of which ... I'll stop here.

Re: Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

#56
post #22

I have Cooler Master Storm Rapid I mechanical backlit keyboard. It's pretty compact as it doesn't have numerical keyboard. It has nice light effects as it pretty configurable. I am not really impressed with this keyboard - I make a lot typing mistakes, it's very sensitive. For comparison, I can type faster and with fewer typing mistakes on Lenovo e325 laptop keyboard. It costs about 100euro in my country. I don't hav…

I also have this keyboard. I find it to be really solidly built and the lighting effects are a nice touch, but would agree that it doesn't seem to make my typing any better then using the keyboard on my macbook pro. FWIW, I originally got the keyboard with brown switches but then sent it back for blue switches and that seemed to make a big different in how it felt. What type of switches did you get?

Yes, build quality is really good. I've got model SGK-4040-GKCM1 with brown switches.

Re: Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

#57
post #43

You have a million or so replies saying yes. I'll say no, not necessarily. I have grievous RSI issues. They mostly evaporated by going to chicklet boards. Your fingers go through a very minor range of motion with them. Notice how some of the replies caution you to not press the keys the whole way? Same thing. Now any kind of full key keyboard feels sludgey and requiring of an inordinate amount of work. I am less accu…

I don't have anything close to RSI, but with hand pain a chicklet keyboard was quite painful for me because of the small range of motion. Maybe I just type too heavy, but the mechanical keyboard I'm typing this on right now feels much better.

Re: Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

#58

I love the satisfaction of using a mechanical keyboard. The clicking sensation felt as each key has it's own distinct sound while LOC run down my screen. Though I know for a fact that my co-workers do not feel the same way as I do. Many years ago a classic Model M [1] landed on my desk and was great for a few weeks until I found it broken and used as a doorstop. Hmm.. No-one saw anything. Spent the next few years on…

The company I bought my mechanical keyboard from sells sets of O-rings that go under the key-caps[1] to reduce noise. They won't fit on every keyboard, but one could easily find different O-rings that do. I don't use them because noise isn't an issue in my situation, and I enjoy the sound of the key bottoming out. For those in open offices though, they might make the difference between tranquility and having your keyboard used as a doorstop(!)

[1] http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ri...

Re: Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

#59
To be honest, I often get keyboards from thrift stores. The old ones from Microsoft or IBM about ten years ago are much more satisfying to type on than the stuff you get with new computers today. A colleague of mine showed off a "mechanical keyboard" a few weeks ago and I didn't understand the hype. It felt great, just like one of the old solid keyboards I would buy from Goodwill, but I still haven't seen what makes that innovative or worth big bucks.
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