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The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

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Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#121

Post by Kadin »

potatolicious wrote: post #95
elblanco wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just showing that $100 is outrageous for a wireless mouse and keyboard. Here's one for just a hair more with solid reviews. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126... It's not hard to find reasonable quality at a good price point.

I've actually used that keyboard - it's nowhere near the quality of the Apple keyboard. Keys are mushy and soft, and even the chiclet keys have a more solid feel than that. Not to mention the whole thing reeked of plasticy cheapness. Let me put it this way. If I drive once a week, I'd save money and get a little econobox Toyota. If, however, I spent 8 hours a day behind the wheel, I'd invest in a BMW or something els…

> I spend at least 8 hours in front of a computer every single day - why in the world wouldn't I spend $100 on a keyboard/mouse combo?

Well put. I actually think that this logic justifies spending much more -- or at least buying products further along the price/feature curve -- on interface devices that have a comparatively long lifespan, than on devices that get upgraded frequently.

To each their own, of course, but I've never regretted spending money on a good keyboard, good mouse, good monitor, or good chair. You can expect 5+ years out of a mouse (sometimes more), probably 5-10 on a monitor unless your needs change significantly, 10+ on a keyboard unless you have a tendency to spill into it (and even then, if it's a buckling spring you can basically hose it out), and who knows on a good chair -- I'm still on my first "good" one.

I've found that it's the things that some folks cut corners on, things that on the surface can look like extravagances, that easily pay for themselves in terms of productivity and comfort. (Especially the chairs. Seriously, if you make your living sitting down, you deserve a good chair.) They don't have the same e-penis factor as a hotrod CPU, but it's a better use of funds in my book.

(Although with all this said, I'm not a huge fan of the latest Apple keyboards; I think they peaked back with the AEKII. But that's a matter of preference; I like one with long key travel.)

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#122

Post by jrockway »

antonovka wrote: post #114
jrockway wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to turn this into an OS debate, but it looks like it has become one. I have used OS X. I have written software for OS X. I had a job that was to support OS X. I don't like it; I don't think it works well. It doesn't do what I want and it's not particularly stable. Problems I have with OS X are nonexistent with Linux, so that's what I use.

I have used Linux since 1994. I have written software for Linux. I had a job that was to support Linux. I still run Linux on servers where there's no other option. I don't like it; I don't think it works well. It doesn't do what I want -- the desktop software options are incredibly lacking, getting anything working is like pulling teeth, and relying on a distributor like Debian or Ubuntu for all my software means tha…

Yes, the Linux kernel code quality is low, and things often regress. C + no unit tests + opinionated dictator with very little computer science experience = very, very bad. But it works well enough. As long as you are on the beaten path, with Intel hardware and Nothing Too Weird, you will be fine. On OS X, you don't even have the choice to even try anything else.

As for the distribution issue, it's true that you are either out of date or slightly unstable. But on OS X, you can't get any packages at all. So you manage everything yourself, or rely on a third party to package everything for you. Then you are out of date or unstable, and the various package managers conflict with each other and with Apple's stuff. There is no magic fix there, it's the same set of problems.

So anyway, I don't care what OS you use... but OS X is not objectively better. (I have noticed that OS X users prefer no way to do something over a flaky way to do something. Linux has a lot of flaky ways to do a lot of things; OS X just doesn't do much. Tradeoffs.)

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#123

Post by Tichy »

Retric wrote: post #47
Tichy wrote: post #46

I would guess the real reason is mentioned at the end: there really is not much of a point in buying a desktop PC anymore (unless you are a hardcore gamer). It makes much more sense to buy a notebook and attach it to an external monitor when working at home. Also prices for flatscreens are dropping all the time. If the Dell 30'' also has the special panel, and only is lacking in some other specs, maybe enhancing thos…

I have a laptop from work that can I take with me on trips. I also have an iPhone for internet access on the go. So I don't see the need to buy another portable computer.

The point is not having to sync stuff between multiple computers. Of course if you fully embrace "the cloud" it might be less of an issue, but that is not for everyone.

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#124

Post by Tichy »

davidmathers wrote: post #64
elblanco wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about the computers. $1700 is far too much for a low end system, monitor or no monitor. Those specs (sans display) are available for But to that end the iMac isn't a LED display either, it's LED backlit. If I could find a $1000 27" 2560x1440 LED or O-LED display I'd be in line in front of you.

I'm not following you. $800 for the display $500 for the computer components $100 for the aluminum case $100 for the wireless keyboard and hi-tech mouse $100 for OS X and iLife $100 for beautiful industrial design $1700 sounds like a fine deal to me. I'm tempted to buy one right now, but I'm forcing myself to wait for the first component refresh that will come in 6 or 8 months. Core 2 Duo is about to go obsolete.

What kind of calculation is that? Pulling numbers out of the air?

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#125

Post by Tichy »

morphir wrote: post #58

when I got my Macbook Alu - I got baffled by its high quality and sleekness. The 13" Macbook Alu was a bargain relative to its quality. When I experienced the unboxing, I felt like a 16 year old virgin girl..and I'm a boy.. ehehe One year later - and there are still no other company that can offer a similar high quality laptop. Thinkpad has pretty much crashed and burned after china got their hands the product manage…

"It will simply raise the bar for how you perceive quality."

Unless you have to return it three times before you receive one that has no extreme production flaws (happened to a friend with his iMac - mind you, he is still an Apple fan boy despite of that experience...).

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#126

Post by ptomato »

potatolicious wrote: post #118
davidmathers wrote: post #12

there’s an entire high-end computer stuck to the back of it Actually, there's an entire discount-parts ($150 cpu, $70 video card) computer stuck to the back of it. If you configure it with high-end parts the price goes up to $2200 and even then you're getting a previous-generation video card (radeon 4850 rather than the new 5850). It's not really so curious. Apple does the "make exclusive deal with a supplier and bea…

Bear in mind that the iMac uses almost exclusively laptop parts, which are more expensive (but have better thermal profiles, and are of course smaller). The only thing in an iMac that is desktop-sized is I believe the HDD (and maybe the RAM? I'm not sure).

The ram is laptop-sized. (Which also means, by the way, that Apple is not gouging you for the RAM nearly as much as they usually do. They're still gouging you, they're just taking out your eyes instead of half your head.)

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#127

Post by morphir »

Tichy wrote: post #125
morphir wrote: post #58

when I got my Macbook Alu - I got baffled by its high quality and sleekness. The 13" Macbook Alu was a bargain relative to its quality. When I experienced the unboxing, I felt like a 16 year old virgin girl..and I'm a boy.. ehehe One year later - and there are still no other company that can offer a similar high quality laptop. Thinkpad has pretty much crashed and burned after china got their hands the product manage…

"It will simply raise the bar for how you perceive quality." Unless you have to return it three times before you receive one that has no extreme production flaws (happened to a friend with his iMac - mind you, he is still an Apple fan boy despite of that experience...).

all mass production companies have products that fail now and then. But ok, what computer/brand would you recommend?

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#128

Post by Tichy »

morphir wrote: post #127
Tichy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It will simply raise the bar for how you perceive quality." Unless you have to return it three times before you receive one that has no extreme production flaws (happened to a friend with his iMac - mind you, he is still an Apple fan boy despite of that experience...).

all mass production companies have products that fail now and then. But ok, what computer/brand would you recommend?

I am not up to date on hardware at the moment, so I can't comment. Usually I check Dell first (but the notebooks tend to be too ugly, so I can't really recommend them. I don't know their current lineup).

For notebooks I tend to like Samsung, but at the moment unfortunately they use that awful shiny Klavierlack coating (as do many other hardware manufacturers). Hope that goes away soon, then they might be recommendable again.

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#129

Post by Tichy »

barrkel wrote: post #80
Tichy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 24'' monitor from Dell is great, it was not very expensive, and it has served me well for years now. I think you generalize too much (also, never buy from the consumer section). My X1 from Dell is also great, I love it much more than my generic MacBook.

My Dell 2407WFP is great too, but I bought it at a 40% discount. The price fluctuated between list and discount at seemingly random intervals.

True, at Dell you have to catch the right moment. But I suppose there is a system behind it, maybe if it is important one could figure it out (also, always CALL Dell - usually they can give you better prices).

Maybe if you need a monitor right now, it is a problem. But I had another one, and when I heard about the good price, I just upgraded at that moment. Could have been any other moment, too.

Re: The curious pricing of the 27" iMac

#130

Post by yardie »

Tichy wrote: post #129
barrkel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Dell 2407WFP is great too, but I bought it at a 40% discount. The price fluctuated between list and discount at seemingly random intervals.

True, at Dell you have to catch the right moment. But I suppose there is a system behind it, maybe if it is important one could figure it out (also, always CALL Dell - usually they can give you better prices). Maybe if you need a monitor right now, it is a problem. But I had another one, and when I heard about the good price, I just upgraded at that moment. Could have been any other moment, too.

It's an accounting trick. Dell needs to sell a certain amount of goods every quarter. Well they price things to move and load any debt onto next quarters books. Eventually you reach a point like today. Dell has so much debt that it eats into future earnings. This reflects in the stock price. Apple's market cap is 160billion dollars, with 35 billion in reserve. Dells cap is 30 billion dollars. Realistically, Apple could buy Dell in cash.

While the deals are great for endusers, they are cutting their own throats to move product. One thing you can't ignore about Apple, they make profit on everything they sell (no loss leaders there). To an investor, that is a good buy.

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