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How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

nytimes.com

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Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#521

Post by pariya »

chris_wot wrote: post #508
pariya wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not your mistakes, and there is a natural human margin of error. Mistakes make us human and it's what every single one of us has in common. You seem to be a super bright guy who experienced a momentary lapse in judgement fuelled by emotion. We all do this, it's just not always public. Also- I don't know how old you were at the time this story occurred but according to neuroscience, the frontal lobe doesn't de…

Thanks - I've tried :-) I've been pretty open in that situations probably get exacerbated for me because I have a mental illness - anxiety, depression and adult ADD (I refuse to call it ADHD, I'm not hyperactive!). I manage these better now, but it still leaks into my life. I'm extremely lucky I have a supportive wife and two small children who keep my mind off things and let me focus on what's important :-) I really…

Hey! I don't have mental illness and I can barely land a date let alone lock someone down and start a family with a supportive spouse.

It sounds like you are doing pretty okay to me!

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#522

Post by [deleted] »

scljstcwombat wrote: post #518
chris_wot wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the reason, and you know it. "On the one hand, it seems ridiculous (absurd, perhaps) to fire someone over a pronoun -- but to characterize it that way would be a gross oversimplification: it's not the use of the gendered pronoun that's at issue (that's just sloppy), but rather the insistence that pronouns should in fact be gendered." https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun The biggest issue is t…

I don't care how much anyone dislikes Cantrill, but standing up for Ben about this is a mark of shame. > You took no time to talk to Ben about his position and to talk him around to making an apology and reversing his decision. Whereas just above: > it's that when he was overruled by Isaac some hours later, he unilaterally reverted Isaac's commit. (And, it must be said, sent a very nasty private note to make clear th…

[deleted]

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#523

Post by bcantrill »

sintaxi wrote: post #466
bcantrill wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny you should mention that, as that episode from nearly 20 years ago (!!) has come up much more in the last year than it did in the two decades prior. Of course, the reason is not an accident; it's a direct result of those who vehemently disagree with my handling of the Noordhuis pronoun incident. Anyway, your request is entirely fair, and let me be clear that I (obviously?) regret the have-you-ever-kissed-a-…

Its fruitful to reflect on such past behavior both professional and personal. I have my share of regrets as well. None of us are without fault, just some of us have our mistakes more amplified than others. It important to learn from such things. In interest of personal edification (since you seem to be open to feedback) the one criticism I have about the Noordhuis incident is that in my opinion if you felt as strongl…

I appreciate (as always) your thoughtful candor. And I (certainly) appreciate your kind words with respect to my personal integrity; the sentiment is very much mutual!

In this case, we may have to agree to disagree: I felt (and feel) that a message from Joyent -- not a message from me -- was called for: members of the node.js community were calling Joyent to task for Ben's behavior, and I (we) felt that it was Joyent that needed to respond. That said, I appreciate your willingness to speak your mind and to earnestly engage on this issue!

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#524

Post by mc32 »

stolio wrote: post #520
CamperBob2 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't make them "different," it makes them hateful. You're carrying water for some people that will go down in history next to the KKK. Stop it.

What, stop defending people who are being forced out of society by an angry mob? No. I dislike angry mobs, it's kind of my thing.

Not only that. If you take that approach to an extreme one e fs up a hermit or worse a selfreinfocing mentality. I mean no restaurants where a cook, server disagrees politically, no working for companies who have people who disagree with me, no listening to music from musicians who disagree with me....

Go ahead try and see how far people get. Not very.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#525

Post by defen »

coldpie wrote: post #422
latestrevision wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, I don't think the author was actually trying to defend that point, but instead to highlight how when taken out of context or in hindsight any one of our behaviors could in the future be seen as a real, unambiguously "wrong" act.

Yes, I'm likewise highlighting that there's a gray area in that particular question, unlike the other question.

Thought experiment: Let's say hypothetically scientists discovered a drug or "vaccine" that a pregnant woman could take, which would guarantee that a male child of hers would not be gay (I'm operating under the assumption that homosexuality is caused by genetic or environmental factors and is not a free choice of the individual).

Would you be opposed to pregnant women taking this drug?

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#526

Post by wozniacki »

paulhauggis wrote: post #219

This is the reality of social media. If you offend the wrong person, you will most likely get fired from your job and or get unwanted attention in other parts of your life..all for just expressing an opinion. It's essentially online bullying by people that want to silence you for having an opinion that is different than their own. The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against hi…

  It's essentially online bullying by people that want to 
  silence you for having an opinion that is different than 
  their own.
Do you see any breakthroughs coming in platforms and/or technologies, that tackle this problem, on the horizon ?

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#527

Post by zem »

gearoidoc wrote: post #379
andybak wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To repeat: she did not deserve ANY bullying or harassment whatsoever. That wasn't clear. You said the "outcome was fair" - the outcome was that her life was ruined.

I also said: No one deserves to be bullied or harassed but consequences need to exist to actions. I meant the outcome from a professional standpoint was fair. I don't believe how her life has been "ruined" as I've explained elsewhere.

if you think the outcome from a professional standpoint was fair, you have a very bleak and dystopian view of fairness. she was posting something to her own private twitter account in her own time; it had nothing to do with the job.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#528

Post by Khaine »

EdiX wrote: post #336
rebootthesystem wrote: post #192

Legal liability would put an end to this. Imagine this: Someone says something unfortunate or offensive at a crowded street corner. Another person hears it and launches into a righteous indignation frenzy. I'll call him the Lead Bully. He stirrs up others. Very soon this turns into a physical attack and the speaker ends up in the hospital with serious injuries. In this case anyone would easily conclude that the Lead…

> in Justine Sacco's case the Lead Bully was Sam Biddle You'd be surprised to find out just how many times the Lead Bully turns out to be Sam Biddle.

No I wouldn't. There are no words to describe how big of an arsehole he is.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#529

Post by ElissaShevinsky »

tjic wrote: post #19
lazyjones wrote: post #8

Aren't all these Twitter sh*tstorms over within a few days, or in the worst case, weeks? People should just sit them out and not panic / call their lives ruined. Seems to work even for politicians.

Pax Dickinson is still unemployed a year later. People's names become toxic. Note that the Donglegate guy wouldn't let his name be used, and another woman in the article wouldn't do a followup interview.

I'm saddened that Pax's work at Glimpse didn't help to redeem his reputation. Pax showed excellent judgment on social media for the entire time that he was my cofounder. And we did excellent work together (we consistently had 10 - 18% week over week traction, app had five star reviews, well known security experts pen tested our app and found it was well designed etc.)

For what it's worth, some VCs did want to fund Glimpse. We didn't follow up on that while Pax was on board, for various reasons. A significant A raise would likely have helped Pax rebrand positively in a mainstream way.

Pax is now publicly pro-gamer gate (as you can see on his Twitter feed and with his most recent startup ExposeCorrupt.) I understand why that would have an impact on marketability.

As much as we talk about diversity in technology, there are some ideas and some kind of people that are simply not welcome. I worry about this a bit because I think it hurts a lot of people, not just neo-reactionaries.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#530

Post by ElissaShevinsky »

tjic wrote: post #19
lazyjones wrote: post #8

Aren't all these Twitter sh*tstorms over within a few days, or in the worst case, weeks? People should just sit them out and not panic / call their lives ruined. Seems to work even for politicians.

Pax Dickinson is still unemployed a year later. People's names become toxic. Note that the Donglegate guy wouldn't let his name be used, and another woman in the article wouldn't do a followup interview.

Also - Pax apologized and then spent over a year being an excellent citizen of the startup community and on social media. I worry about an ecosystem that is so unforgiving.

I believe that ostracizing people - without the possibility of giving them second chances - is ultimately bad for everyone. It takes folks who have messed up and disenfranchises them so that they no longer have a stake in their reputation and participation in the community.

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