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How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

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441–450 of 596 posts

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if the joke had come out of Louis CK's mouth, its intention would have been obvious. given that, as she said in the article, "only an insane person would think that white people can't get AIDS", and the phrasing is obviously comic (dour opening, sudden & glib reversal, edgy punchline), I literally cannot read the tweet as bigoted or racist. Is the joke off-color? yes. Is it obviously self-deprecating, and aware of th…

if the joke had come out of Louis CK's mouth, its intention would have been obvious. ^Agreed but Louis CK is a world famous comedian. When he speaks I know to take most of what he says in jest. Theres a context I can apply when he speaks. A counterpoint to this would be that she had a small following on Twitter, most of whom she may know in real life, who likely know that she was joking. They can apply a similar cont…

> And that's okay. I see it differently. We all take different understandings of things. The tweeter should have considered this when posting the tweet.

I find it hard to accept this. I've offended people, unintentionally. Heck, there are still a few times that to this day I don't understand why the person was offended (I mostly do understand when they explain themselves).

We are human; I don't think it is reasonable to parse everything 140 characters that ever leaves our mouths or fingers and correctly predict how any/every person in the world might possible interpret it.

I mean, do you know anyone, ever, that has never offended somebody? It seems like an impossible standard. People shouldn't brake to late and rear end somebody at a stop light. People shouldn't ski too fast on a ski slope and fall. They shouldn't trip and fall. They shouldn't talk over somebody during a conversation. But we do them, now and again.

I loathe posting in conversations like this because it is almost inevitable that someone somewhere will misconstrue what I am saying. "Look, Roger is sticking up for racist posting!" Uh, no, anything but, but someone somewhere is going to say that. I'll probably get lucky and that won't develop into a Twitterstorm, but who knows? A good part of me says just delete this and don't hit reply.

But I don't want to live in that kind of world of perfect expectations. I'm going to try hard to express myself well, but you (you=public, not you the poster I'm replying to) have to understand that modelling the minds of others is a difficult and mistake ridden field.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tweet is not part of a private conversation and the user in question should have known that - particularly considering their profession. Twitter & FB aren't the problem. A lack of awareness and judgement is.

I would say 80% of people on here have shown a little lack of awareness and judgement at least once on HN. Have you ever posted a joke that might offend? Have you ever linked to one or more past projects? Are you aware that you can not delete your account or your posts?

Maybe I'm missing the ToS where copyright is assigned to HN, but I'm going to guess that a simple DMCA notice to HN would have all your comments deleted quite expediently.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tweet is not part of a private conversation and the user in question should have known that - particularly considering their profession. Twitter & FB aren't the problem. A lack of awareness and judgement is.

I would say 80% of people on here have shown a little lack of awareness and judgement at least once on HN. Have you ever posted a joke that might offend? Have you ever linked to one or more past projects? Are you aware that you can not delete your account or your posts?

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Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#444
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Either because I think it's culturally better accepted for private people (I mean not public figures) to have unappropriate expressions publicly Based on my (admittedly very limited) experience with French culture, this is definitely the most important difference. America has become extremely politically correct. People in France are much more relaxed about saying things Americans might construe as offensive. In par…

" Based on my (admittedly very limited) experience with French culture, this is definitely the most important difference. " Unless they are saying something conceivably pro-Nazi?

Yes, you can even go to jail for that in lot of EU countries.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#445
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He acknowledges that in the replies, but this particular "idiocy" is not one of tone, behavior, or offense. It is about bad technical policy in the pursuit of ego, which is something that Linus has done several times since. (And he's a brilliant enough kernel hacker that he can work around his own bad policy and still come up with a system that works well, but that doesn't mean it's not bad technical policy. I feel b…

It's funny you should mention that, as that episode from nearly 20 years ago (!!) has come up much more in the last year than it did in the two decades prior. Of course, the reason is not an accident; it's a direct result of those who vehemently disagree with my handling of the Noordhuis pronoun incident. Anyway, your request is entirely fair, and let me be clear that I (obviously?) regret the have-you-ever-kissed-a-…

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Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#446

That may sound hateful or angry or whatever, but here goes... > I was among the first people to alert social media. (This was because Gill always gave my television documentaries bad reviews, so I tended to keep a vigilant eye on things he could be got for.) Within minutes, it was everywhere. Is this really what we've come to? We have all this technological progress so you could stalk someone you're butthurt over and…

I don't think he was presenting his past actions as good. He was showing that he himself has made the same mistake.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#447
post #142

Humans are sexually dimorphic primates. Primates form status hierarchies spontaneously. Status is zero sum. Higher status males mate with the majority of females. Low status males do not reproduce at all. We are descendants of 40% of males and 80% of females. As religious and legally enforced monogamy decline across all societies, we will see increasingly vicious status wars across all human societies. This writer is…

Uhh, what is the connection here? And how are you so sure that status wars did not happen as much, if only in different forms, during the days of "enforced monogamy"?

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#448

This is the reality of social media. If you offend the wrong person, you will most likely get fired from your job and or get unwanted attention in other parts of your life..all for just expressing an opinion. It's essentially online bullying by people that want to silence you for having an opinion that is different than their own. The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against hi…

Would society really be any better off if people aren't held accountable for what they say?

Would you really say that a society where no one is ever held accountable for what they say is the alternative to what happened to Sacco?

Imagine if someone with a lot of twitter followers interpreted the statement you just made here as a veiled death threat, unleashing a raging mob against you, ultimately leading the utter destruction of your life as you knew it. Would you say that you were being held accountable for what you just said and that any society that did not do that to you had to be one where no one was being held accountable for anything they say?

Demanding that people should be held accountable for what they say is so generic that it allows for any kind of reaction to just about anything anyone could ever say. The islamists who killed the Charlie Hebdo caroonists could have said the exact same thing.

Proportionality is important.

Also, Sacco's case clearly shows that there are always lots of people out there who are waiting for an opportunity to bully others, regardless of how contrived and intellectually disingenuous the pretext may be. Portraying a joke about racism or race relations as a racist joke is just daft. I can't believe that many people honestly felt that Sacco was being racist. They just wanted to bully someone.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#449

1) It's an offensive tweet. Whether you intend something to be offensive or not doesn't make it any less offensive. 2) It's very easy to pass off casual racism as a joke or a misunderstanding of the medium after it blows up in your face.

In my experience, the people who find these things the most offensive are the people the barb is pointed at. Privileged white people--who have nothing better to do than run around worrying about what other people are thinking out loud, trying hard to make sure that the whole world is protected from harmful speech, but who do nothing about actually solving things like the AIDs problem in Africa--are exactly the target…

Someone finally said it! I have often remarked that much of the so-called anti-racism is in fact designed to keep a lid on actual racism itself. People are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true because of people like you who force the link, who call,email and tweet employers about the behaviour of their off duty staff.

because of people like you ^Thats quite an assumption to make, no? For the record, I've never done any of the above.

I think you understand what I mean but are perhaps being dense for the sake of argument. There are people who hold simile views to yourself and these people take it up on themselves to bring people's employers into arguments that they have no part of or perhaps would be otherwise unaware of. That's not to say the employer cannot have a response to comments and posts of this nature but they are not allowed to deal with it in a professional manner because the mob is baying at their door.
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