Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#21

Post by Alex3917 » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 5:57 PM UTC

booksnarf wrote: post #17

Religion. I was born & raised a devout Baptist Christian (and creationist). But in the past 5 months, I've read about 50 books and hundreds of web pages and decided that agnostic atheism [1] and evolution make more sense. Hopefully I didn't just devolve this into a religion argument... [1] "Agnostic atheist" == I can't say for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I will live my life on the assumption he is…

Same here, only the other way. After being an atheist my entire life, I got more interested in religion over the past few months. After listening to dozens of hours worth of podcasts, and reading a few books and academic journal articles, I've decided that there is such a thing as a "primary religious experience." Furthermore, it's pretty clear that while academia can verify that this experience exists, science can't really go much further than that, at least in its current state.

As to whether this experience is caused by contact with god, or the sacred, or whatever, I'd put myself in your same "agnostic atheist" camp. Only I'd say that I'll approach some future experiences on the assumption that God is there. (Not that I'm going to go out and become super religious or anything, but being able to suspend disbelief once and a while is the key to making things fun, whether it's watching Star Wars or reading about Mysticism or whatever.)

That's the real take away I think, that in the same way most people don't like math because they were "mathematically abused" as kids, most people don't like religion because they were religiously abused as kids. When actually learning about religion is kinda fun and intellectually interesting.

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#22

Post by amichail » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:02 PM UTC

yan wrote: post #19

booksnarf wrote: post #17

Religion. I was born & raised a devout Baptist Christian (and creationist). But in the past 5 months, I've read about 50 books and hundreds of web pages and decided that agnostic atheism [1] and evolution make more sense. Hopefully I didn't just devolve this into a religion argument... [1] "Agnostic atheist" == I can't say for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I will live my life on the assumption he is…

The above post. I used to think that Dawkins & co's books were just preaching to the choir. Yeah, I found them fun to read and nod along, but I didn't believe they'd change anyone's mind. I assume that this isn't an issue of logic, and when you're not dealing with logic for the most part, no logical argument would be sufficient. Reading posts like these do make me believe that it's possible to change minds, if people…

Do you think that being a good atheist requires a certain level of intelligence that many people don't have?

In particular, the extent to which a person can predict the consequences of his/her actions is probably highly dependent on intelligence.

Religion can be viewed as taking some of this unfairness away.

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#23

Post by HistoryInAction » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:05 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #18

The late Roman empire, thanks to Theodosius: The Empire at Bay : http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?bi=0&bx=of... I used to have very unclear picture of the late empire. Without thinking about it too much, I bought into the pervasive idea (probably due mostly to Gibbon) that the late empire had lost its Roman mojo: that it had become barbarized (what does that mean?) and worn out (why then?). Now I have a…

I'm all for revisionist views of Adrianople. My best impression currently is that the ongoing schism between east and west led to bad miscommunications and the eastern emperor rushing ahead into a flanking ambush that resulted in the near-destruction of the western army of the Eastern Empire.

With the late-late empire, I believe that doom came from the fall of the Libyan breadbasket to the Vandals, though that doesn't explain why Egypt (East but still Roman) couldn't provide food to Roman Italy, since it was yet to fall for another 200 years...

Let's see what this book tells me... thanks for the link.

The biggest question I have re: the Roman fall is how did the East stay stable while the West collapsed, though I'm also interested in the process by which a single Patriarchy in Rome managed to gain temporal authority while the Patriarchates in Constantinople, Alexandria, and Jerusalem remained bound to separate political organizations.

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#24

Post by jacobolus » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:06 PM UTC

xayide wrote: post #5

Seat belt laws. For years, my inner Libertarian would cringe at the idea that the government could force someone to do something they didn't want to when it was their own life at risk. But then my inner Republican realized that if I were to be at fault in an accident, I would be financially and possibly criminally liable for a much steeper offense if the other party wasn't buckled up.

Not to sound harsh, but your logic here epitomizes the stereotype of conservative as uncaring/greedy/self-absorbed. Instead of being concerned that people will die, your reasons for supporting seat belt laws is that it reduces your liability. Maybe you actually have some concern for human life, and don't actually intend to leave that impression; if not, it's worth considering how you present your argument, because right away you've alienated anyone who doesn't have a strictly utilitarian (or perhaps libertarian) view of the world.

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#25

Post by HistoryInAction » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:07 PM UTC

ryandvm wrote: post #2

The best way to implement health care in the United States. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200909/health-care

I enjoy Ezra Klein as a left-perspective, wonky (politically technical, if you're not familiar with the term) writer who has a special focus on the intricacies of health care policy.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#26

Post by HistoryInAction » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:09 PM UTC

boredguy8 wrote: post #15

mapleoin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've just discovered poetry?

I've long appreciated poetry for it's ability to 'get at' the world in ways that I would consider rather precise. Metaphors are not a tool of ambiguity, but rather precision. Though I haven't read much poetry (nothing that doesn't appear in Harper's or New Yorker): I'll have to go back and re-read some things to see in what ways my interpretation has changed, if at all.

I'm partial to Kipling's "If," which should be quite popular among this crowd: http://www.everypoet.com/archive/poetry/Rudyard_Kipling/kipl...

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#27

Post by JangoSteve » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:11 PM UTC

xayide wrote: post #5

Seat belt laws. For years, my inner Libertarian would cringe at the idea that the government could force someone to do something they didn't want to when it was their own life at risk. But then my inner Republican realized that if I were to be at fault in an accident, I would be financially and possibly criminally liable for a much steeper offense if the other party wasn't buckled up.

Wow, I never thought of that. However, I don't think the answer is forcing people to wear seatbelts, but rather to exonerate the at-fault driver from the other driver's decision against seatbelt use. The former not only encroaches on people's rights, but it doesn't actually solve the problem mentioned, because the other person can still decide not to wear a seatbelt.

Luckily, I live in a no-fault state though. But still, that's a very good point.

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#28

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:19 PM UTC

amichail wrote: post #22

yan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The above post. I used to think that Dawkins & co's books were just preaching to the choir. Yeah, I found them fun to read and nod along, but I didn't believe they'd change anyone's mind. I assume that this isn't an issue of logic, and when you're not dealing with logic for the most part, no logical argument would be sufficient. Reading posts like these do make me believe that it's possible to change minds, if people…

Do you think that being a good atheist requires a certain level of intelligence that many people don't have? In particular, the extent to which a person can predict the consequences of his/her actions is probably highly dependent on intelligence. Religion can be viewed as taking some of this unfairness away.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#29

Post by JangoSteve » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:20 PM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #24

xayide wrote: post #5

Seat belt laws. For years, my inner Libertarian would cringe at the idea that the government could force someone to do something they didn't want to when it was their own life at risk. But then my inner Republican realized that if I were to be at fault in an accident, I would be financially and possibly criminally liable for a much steeper offense if the other party wasn't buckled up.

Not to sound harsh, but your logic here epitomizes the stereotype of conservative as uncaring/greedy/self-absorbed. Instead of being concerned that people will die , your reasons for supporting seat belt laws is that it reduces your liability . Maybe you actually have some concern for human life, and don't actually intend to leave that impression; if not, it's worth considering how you present your argument, because…

I think maybe you missed something in his post. How is he being uncaring/greedy/self-absorbed by acknowldedging how he is impacted by others' decision to use a seatbelt or not?

He isn't saying people shouldn't wear a seatbelt. He's saying it should be their choice. If someone chooses not to wear their seatbelt, they obviously care more about their own convenience and comfort than their safety and well-being. Why should he (or anyone else) worry about their lives more than they do themselves?

Not to sound harsh, but I think that your logic epitomizes the stereotype of the extreme liberal who thinks it's everyone else's responsibility to support and take care of you. You've alienated anyone who doesn't have a strictly socialist view of the world.

Of course, if you're not alienating someone, then you're probably not thinking things through enough to form a strong opinion. So, good on you for having an opinion either way ;-)

Re: Ask HN: What have you changed your mind about recently?

#30

Post by RiderOfGiraffes » Mon, Oct 26, 2009, 6:21 PM UTC

Whether I really belong here. I used to think it was a given, now I'm really not sure. So much stuff I'm interested in gets completely ignored, and I'm pretty sure it's been seen. There's the occasional zinger, but I no longer think I'm a good match for this community.