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Why animals eat psychoactive plants

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Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#171

Post by wingerlang »

evincarofautumn wrote: post #168
bornhuetter wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans consider hamburgers to be a type of sandwich. It can be confusing to people from other countries who don't consider meat in a bun (as opposed to meat between slices of bread) to be a a sandwich.

Sorry to keep doing this, but I would say a bun is bread, too: “A bun is a small, sometimes sweet, bread or bread roll,” quoth Wikipedia.

> Sorry to keep doing this

I guess likewise, because while bun is a type of bread, bread doesn't, again, necessarily have to be a bun.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#172

Post by _nedR »

researcher88 wrote: post #146
_nedR wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing intoxicants with stimulants. Noone accidentally ran over a kid or beat up his wife because he drank too many cups of coffee or smoked one too many cigarettes. Alcohol on the other hand... edit: If you are going to say that cocaine is primarily a stimulatant, You can't even compare the harmful effects/addictiveness of cocaine with coffee or cigarettes.

True. 6,000 people died of cocaine abuse in 2006. Another statistic said 17,000 died in 2000 from all illicit drugs. Now surely moderate cocaine abuse is causing deaths in people who aren't known addicts. But tobacco is certainly far far worse at 443,000 annual deaths. Occasional responsible use of hard drugs is likely not that bad for you.

I was referring to the fact that neither coffee nor tobacco impairs a person's judgement, or ability to function in society.

For example, Imagine a person who comes to work after smoking a cigarette versus a person who comes after smoking a joint.

Regarding cocaine deaths, that is despite the fact that cocaine is not legally available, and is very expensive whereas cigarettes are readily and cheaply available. Almost all the deaths from cigarette smoking happen to heavy users over the long-term (149,222 of deaths are between ages 50-69 and 250,000 are over the age of 70) when compared to hard drug use. Cocaine is highly addictive, and the fact is a good percentage of the population does not have the self-control to restrict them to "occasional responsible use" (As is amply evident in the case of alcohol)

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#173

Post by noneshallpass »

speeder wrote: post #123
derefr wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more, I don't see addicts; I see people self-medicating for undiagnosed neurochemical imbalances. Alcoholics are frequently people who don't realize they have anxiety disorders, and think they need alcohol to be calm. People who drink cup after cup of coffee/soda because it helps them to "focus" and "be productive" might do well with being tested for ADD. People with undiagnosed clinical depression get hooke…

I think I maybe have ADHD, (not just ADD), but medics REFUSE to even TRY to diagnose me, because of all the ADHD drugs abuse by students and obese people (in my country, Adderall actually entered the list of illegal drugs, because of its abuse to 'cure' obesity). Saturday, while trying to finish a task for my startup, I took LOADS of caffeine, and it didn't work. I suspected I might be addicted, and tried yesterday t…

I do a couple no-caffeine weeks every couple of months to detox, withdrawal symptoms occur each time during the first 2 days or so (headaches, feeling very tired etc). It gets better soon afterwards.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#174

Post by saiya-jin »

chrischen wrote: post #27

> Some drug use causes horrible harm, as I know very well, but the overwhelming majority of people who use prohibited drugs do it because they get something good out of it — a fun night out dancing, the ability to meet a deadline, the chance of a good night’s sleep, or insights into parts of their brain they couldn’t get to on their own. Just because 90% of drug users aren't being harmed, doesn't mean it's necessaril…

do-not-agree. my example - after breaking up with girls, smoking pot make me come to terms with it rather quickly, gaining different perspective (ie that necessary step back that you don't have when deep in it). I see too many people dwelling in the past long gone, strong negative reactions when meeting previous lover etc (if one really moves on, meeting an ex is a "meh" experience no matter what happened... how many times did you see the opposite?). Curing grief, and I mean really curing for good, instead of being depressed has a net positive effect for me. If this thing would be completely legal, I wouldn't be destroying my lungs by smoking it, but apply some nasal spray, eye drops or similar with no side effects.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#175

Post by evincarofautumn »

wingerlang wrote: post #171
evincarofautumn wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to keep doing this, but I would say a bun is bread, too: “A bun is a small, sometimes sweet, bread or bread roll,” quoth Wikipedia.

> Sorry to keep doing this I guess likewise, because while bun is a type of bread, bread doesn't, again, necessarily have to be a bun.

Of course not. I’ve been saying for this whole conversation that it’s simply odd, when X is a subset of Y, to use language that implies that X and Y are disjoint sets.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#176

Post by ris »

simplexion wrote: post #51
ris wrote: post #14

I note that this is written by Johann Hari http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

So? Does it change the value of this recently published article because of previous bad behaviour? Keep your logical fallacies to yourself.

Yes. There is such thing as "reputation". Logical fallacy? What logical fallacy?

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#177

Post by speeder »

bitL wrote: post #127
speeder wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I maybe have ADHD, (not just ADD), but medics REFUSE to even TRY to diagnose me, because of all the ADHD drugs abuse by students and obese people (in my country, Adderall actually entered the list of illegal drugs, because of its abuse to 'cure' obesity). Saturday, while trying to finish a task for my startup, I took LOADS of caffeine, and it didn't work. I suspected I might be addicted, and tried yesterday t…

Try to kick out simple carbs (mainly sugar) from your diet, sleep well and start doing aerobic exercises like running, cycling, swimming. A lot of people reported improvement in their state - seems like exercise and better diet help balancing some neurotransmitter-related problems. Maybe you will be amongst the lucky ones that can fix it that way.

I did that a long time ago

For example I don't buy sugar, at all.

All my sugar intake comes from stuff that has sugar in it, like the occasional sweet chocolate...

As for exercises... I try, I can even do some months, but after a time they start make me feel extremely bored and I cannot even pay attention to them while doing them, so I stop.

After a while I start again.

The exception was Kung Fu, but I have right now no accessible decent academy.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#178

Post by speeder »

unprepare wrote: post #166
derefr wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what country, but pro-drugs like Vyvanse are the best thing to ever happen to people who suspect they have ADHD. "Pro-drug" basically means "no high possible" and therefore "no abuse potential", which further means "being interested in this drug is not drug-seeking behaviour." (It also means "not easily converted back into its active metabolite by anything other than the appropriate liver enzyme", and th…

Strattera is the only ADHD treatment i have tried which i believe is not amphetamine based at all - It has been out for years and i'm not sure why it hasnt been as accepted as vyvanse. Do you know if Vyvanse has different outcomes that typical adderall/ritalin? I know Strattera gives much different side effects for myself, but i have never tried vyvanse

Interesting info you gave.

I found Vyvanse recently became legal in Brazil, but it has two problems: First, still requires a prescription, and medics are not free, I cannot randomly visit doctors until one that knows about it (seemly it is still obscure here) heard of it and agrees to try to diagnose me. The other, it is ABSURDLY EXPENSIVE (28 pills is about half of a monthly mininum wage)

As for Strattera, Brazil officially ignore it, like if it don't existed, so you can import it without much consequences. Still expensive though :( (less than Vyvanse, but expensive)

EDIT: I feel sad that as a 27 year old that hates meds I will end taking meds like a 70 year old take (I already have to chronically use 2 meds... this will add another one)

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#180

Post by collyw »

carb wrote: post #81
hristov wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can drink two glasses of red wine every day of your life and if you are healthy adult male of average weight, this will likely extend your life and improve your health. For a woman it is down to one glass. You can drink a glass of coffee or a cup of tea every day of your life and this will also probably improve your life and your health. Trying doing that with cocaine or heroin. Actually do not try it because you…

> You can drink two glasses of red wine every day of your life ... this will likely extend your life and improve your health. This is only seen in tests with small animals such as mice or rats. Please cite a source showing that this result is also seen in humans.

Mediterranean diet has been show to be healthier overall than the beer drinking diet of the north of Europe.
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