I note that this is written by Johann Hari http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari
So? Does it change the value of this recently published article because of previous bad behaviour? Keep your logical fallacies to yourself.
Why animals eat psychoactive plants
51–60 of 180 posts
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Once you see it this way, it's hard to stand in line at Starbucks and think "I'm not an addict." Except "addict" is a loaded term, which implies... well, unequivocally maladaptive behavior. You seldom hear about people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden coffee stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their caffeine fix.
>You seldom hear about people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden coffee stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their caffeine fix. I also seldom hear of people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden drug/alcohol stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their drug/alcohol fix. Really, I do often hear the same sad generic story which you refer to, but there are never…
I'm glad you've never had anyone in your life with a drug addiction. It is clearly something from which you have been withdrawn. Try your best to empathize with the people who match the clinical description of substance addiction as defined by the DSM. This isn't something about which people are simply exaggerating.
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can drink two glasses of red wine every day of your life and if you are healthy adult male of average weight, this will likely extend your life and improve your health. For a woman it is down to one glass. You can drink a glass of coffee or a cup of tea every day of your life and this will also probably improve your life and your health. Trying doing that with cocaine or heroin. Actually do not try it because you…
A once-daily dose of cocaine or heroin is not likely to lead to serious dependence or health effects. So long as the dose and frequency remain constant, one should be able to ride that horse forever. Americans have forgotten just how ubiquitous drugs that are now illegal used to be, and how often they were used. Amphetamines used to be commonly prescribed by doctors, for just about anything. Hitler used to take cryst…
A better example of useful drug dependence would be Paul Erdős.
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Surely the percentage varies significantly depending on the drug. It actually doesn't, which is one of the key findings of addiction research. The reason is that people don't abuse drugs because of the physical discomfort of withdrawal, but rather because they have a psychological dependence on drug use. And that psychological dependence is caused by things like previous life trauma; any given drug is just an inter…
Any links to such research? It's hardly presented in a scientifically rigorous way, but take this for example: http://bakadesuyo.com/2012/08/whats-the-most-addictive-drug/ . It supports the notion the delivery significantly impacts behaviour, but it also cites highly variable addiction rates - not a consistent 90%. Still Googling for better research, but suffice it to say I'm a bit skeptical of the claims...
> Any links to such research?
Not sure about primary sources, but the professor talks about the routes of administration in the Drugs and Behavior class that's available on iTunes. In terms of addiction rates, this is something that Carl Hart researches and has been talking a lot about recently. He has written a bunch of articles and given some TED talks on the topic.
In terms of quoted figures for the addictiveness of various substances, you need to look at whether the studies you're looking at correct for the characteristics of the users. E.g. people who use heroin are much more likely to become addicted to drugs, which makes heroin look more addictive than it actually is. There certainly is some variance between drugs, but it's relatively small... like 9% vs 13%, but not like 2% vs 90%.
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#55I’ve always found it fascinating that people don’t perceive socially sanctioned drugs as drugs at all. Saying “drugs and alcohol” to me is like saying “sandwiches and hamburgers”. A person can drink a cup of coffee in the morning, smoke a cigarette on their lunch break, and drink a couple glasses of wine in the evening, and the only thing that keeps them from being called a “drug addict” is that these particular drug…
You can drink two glasses of red wine every day of your life and if you are healthy adult male of average weight, this will likely extend your life and improve your health. For a woman it is down to one glass. You can drink a glass of coffee or a cup of tea every day of your life and this will also probably improve your life and your health. Trying doing that with cocaine or heroin. Actually do not try it because you…
One of the 4 founders of Johns Hopkins Hospital was addicted to both cocaine and morphine and was able to remain functional while addicted for the rest of his life.
I think it's easy to mix up the effects of the illegality of certain drugs with the effects of the drugs themselves. Impurities and poor injection hygiene are probably a large part of the health effects of these two drugs currently, and they are a result of their black market status.
I'm not saying you should go out and pick up an opiate or coke addiction, just that the difference in effect is sometimes more a result of the war on drugs and less a result of the drug itself. Bathtub gin made people blind during Prohibition too.
I think the addictive potential of those drugs are overstated as well - most people who try heroin or coke do not wind up becoming addicted, just like having your two glasses of wine don't make you into a raging alcoholic. There appears to be a subset of people who are predisposed to becoming addicted to drugs, but that does not translate into "try heroin, become a junkie."
The basis of the drug war is not rooted in any sort of rational division of drugs by harm. Anti-opiate laws were enacted to target Chinese immigrants, anti-cocaine and marijuana laws targeted blacks and Mexicans, anti-everything else laws were enacted in the 60's in response to anti-hippie hysteria. If we really based things on harm, psychedelics and marijuana would be legal, and alcohol would be illegal - alcohol being a cause of more than twice the deaths in the US than all other substances combined, and is a factor in a huge number of violent crimes.
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#56I’ve always found it fascinating that people don’t perceive socially sanctioned drugs as drugs at all. Saying “drugs and alcohol” to me is like saying “sandwiches and hamburgers”. A person can drink a cup of coffee in the morning, smoke a cigarette on their lunch break, and drink a couple glasses of wine in the evening, and the only thing that keeps them from being called a “drug addict” is that these particular drug…
David E.H. Jones pointed out that the socially sanctioned drugs have something in common: they all taste bad. Or at least, they have a taste that is unappealing to children, and then must be acquired by special effort. Coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol: all taste pretty awful to a ten-year-old.
I don't understand the argument. I'm pretty sure no illegal drugs taste good either, so what is the argument he was trying to make?
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#57I’ve always found it fascinating that people don’t perceive socially sanctioned drugs as drugs at all. Saying “drugs and alcohol” to me is like saying “sandwiches and hamburgers”. A person can drink a cup of coffee in the morning, smoke a cigarette on their lunch break, and drink a couple glasses of wine in the evening, and the only thing that keeps them from being called a “drug addict” is that these particular drug…
You can drink two glasses of red wine every day of your life and if you are healthy adult male of average weight, this will likely extend your life and improve your health. For a woman it is down to one glass. You can drink a glass of coffee or a cup of tea every day of your life and this will also probably improve your life and your health. Trying doing that with cocaine or heroin. Actually do not try it because you…
> You can drink two glasses of red wine every day of your life and if you are healthy adult male of average weight, this will likely extend your life and improve your health.
FWIW, I've never had alcohol, but after reading advice like this in the popular press, I asked both my cardiologist and GP whether this would be a good addition to my life.
Both said there probably wasn't any harm in it if I was already doing it, but that they would not recommend starting, and that of all the things I could do that might improve my health, improving my diet and regular exercise were better choices (and less likely to have negative side effects).
(A urologist I saw actively advised against alcohol consumption, but that advice seemed limited to easing specific conditions).
YMMV, and doctors don't know everything.
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#58When did 'animals do it' become a justification for anything? Animals are violent, self-centered, racist, misogynistic assholes.
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#59I don't think the first sentence of this article still holds. In 2011, the UN convened a global commission on drug policy which stated: "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Commission_on_Drug_Poli...
The Global Commission on Drug Policy was completely independent, it had nothing to do with the UN (unfortunately).
Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can drink two glasses of red wine every day of your life and if you are healthy adult male of average weight, this will likely extend your life and improve your health. For a woman it is down to one glass. You can drink a glass of coffee or a cup of tea every day of your life and this will also probably improve your life and your health. Trying doing that with cocaine or heroin. Actually do not try it because you…
A once-daily dose of cocaine or heroin is not likely to lead to serious dependence or health effects. So long as the dose and frequency remain constant, one should be able to ride that horse forever. Americans have forgotten just how ubiquitous drugs that are now illegal used to be, and how often they were used. Amphetamines used to be commonly prescribed by doctors, for just about anything. Hitler used to take cryst…
> Even alcohol was much more widely consumed during the Middle Ages, as it was safer to drink than water.
Apparently this is a common view, but not one settled as correct:
http://leslefts.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-great-medieval-wate...