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The Island Where People Forget to Die

nytimes.com

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Re: The Island Where People Forget to Die

#41

Post by fsloth »

chroma wrote: post #17

Let's assume every claim in this article is true. Let's say that if you follow a certain diet, move to a certain island, make certain friends, and have certain genes, you will live to the age of 100. So what ? Best case, you get an extra decade or two of life. This may seem amazing, but to be honest, it's ineffectual life. This extra time will be spent being old . Whether you're 70 or 100, you will be frail, dim-witt…

"A human being dies more often than that. To accept this is obscene. It is is immoral. It is insane. And yet, most people do. Shame on us."

Currently death is inevitable and a law of nature. Perhaps technology will change this in the future. As it is, it's one of the those things one must accept and come to terms with.

Perhaps you are a bit too depressed about aging. There are documented cases of peoples in their 70:s being quite keen and healthy.

I think one the keys here is exercise. People who do daily walks are much more healthy than people who don't. If one is in their 70:s and has been sedentary for most of his life and the other one has kept even a routine of daily walks, the other one has decades of exercise behind him.

There has been studies that moderate exercise helps to revert supposedly age related cognitive discrepancies. Sorry, can't find the reference right now.

My belief (anecdotal and completely unfound) is that people who live healthy lives are much more healthier when old. Thus part of the incapacity attached to old age is not biological predestination but also affected through the current and past lifestyle of the old person.

Sure, one CAN be in a really bad shape in their 70:s. Just sit decades on a sofa watching TV. Or perform work that is physically exhausting.

I think you are overthinking and fearing too much a thing you do not know thoroughly. That you refer to a scientific paper is an indication of trying to rationally cope with this. However, there is one problem - Most bleeding edge scientific studies are flawed and incorrect. I would not consult a single paper to form an opinion on anything. I would consult a gerontologist. And even his opinion might be formed from studying partial population - the sick and in need of care - in stead of the whole population.

Re: The Island Where People Forget to Die

#43

Post by Padding »

draven wrote: post #36
chroma wrote: post #17

Let's assume every claim in this article is true. Let's say that if you follow a certain diet, move to a certain island, make certain friends, and have certain genes, you will live to the age of 100. So what ? Best case, you get an extra decade or two of life. This may seem amazing, but to be honest, it's ineffectual life. This extra time will be spent being old . Whether you're 70 or 100, you will be frail, dim-witt…

> it's ineffectual life Being happy and alive for 20 years more instead of being dead does sound pretty good from an individual standpoint to me.

> Being happy and alive for 20 years

You're not thinking this through thoroughly.

Being "happy" can be achieved with anti-depressants and being "alive" can be achieved by essentially turning you into a vegetable.

You're happy and alive, yet I highly doubt this is what you had in mind when you wrote that line. You clearly want more than just being happy and alive. You also want to be free and an individual and have an impact on the world and all those other things humans want .. but sadly often times you can only have less and less of those as you grow old.

Re: The Island Where People Forget to Die

#44

Post by gambiting »

EarthLaunch wrote: post #12

> It’s easy to get enough rest if no one else wakes up early and the village goes dead during afternoon naptime. It helps that the cheapest, most accessible foods are also the most healthful — and that your ancestors have spent centuries developing ways to make them taste good. It’s hard to get through the day in Ikaria without walking up 20 hills. You’re not likely to ever feel the existential pain of not belonging…

>>Great article. This importance of pervasive cultural factors was the key insight for me. I follow an unusual diet that happens to consist of 100% unprocessed foods. I allow myself to sleep when I'm tired. I live somewhere I can enjoy long walks and other fun exercise. I'm never late because I don't set schedules.

I'd love to do that. But I also love my job so I sit in an air-conditioned office for 8 hours a day. If I am tired I have to drink coffee. I try to eat healthily(only organic food),but it's still not enough. I could abandon all of it and live in a wilderness somewhere,but unfortunately it's not sustainable on a larger scale.

Re: The Island Where People Forget to Die

#45

Post by ck425 »

chroma wrote: post #17

Let's assume every claim in this article is true. Let's say that if you follow a certain diet, move to a certain island, make certain friends, and have certain genes, you will live to the age of 100. So what ? Best case, you get an extra decade or two of life. This may seem amazing, but to be honest, it's ineffectual life. This extra time will be spent being old . Whether you're 70 or 100, you will be frail, dim-witt…

>This extra time will be spent being old. Whether you're 70 or 100, you will be frail, dim-witted[1], and unattractive

I refute this and so does the article. One of the striking things about this community was not only how many old people there were but how active they were. It mentioned 85 year olds who were still making honey and teaching dance. These people lived so much longer because they lived better and stayed active. Sure they will be less active, aware and attractive than when they were younger but these people are still in far better shape than most 'old' (60-70s) people in our society and many young people.

Re: The Island Where People Forget to Die

#46

Post by mseebach »

meric wrote: post #9
visakanv wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds identical to the opening chapter of Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers! [1] 'What Wolf slowly realized was that the secret of Roseto wasn't diet or exercise or genes or the region where Roseto was situated. It had to be the Roseto itself. As Bruhn and Wolf walked around the town, they began to realize why. They looked at how the Rosetans visited each other, stopping to chat with each other in Italian on the…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseto_effect Wow, that is patriarchal oppression and stifling familial roles.

I know you said you're being sarcastic, but the only way something like that work on any scale is when a social equilibrium is in place, and those are pretty fragile. I guessing wildly here, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ikaria is the kind of place young people leave, so there's hardly any pressure of social change.

Obviously, the oppression and stifling isn't felt, that's the equilibrium, but I would guess that you would feel it very quickly if you tried to rock the boat. I strongly doubt that a openly gay, openly atheist couple (so, totally uncontroversial in most cities in Europe) would enjoy a happy, laid back lifestyle with plenty of daily socialising in Ikaria. I doubt that a straight, church-going couple that had married against their (Ikaria) parents will would do so.

When social conservatives long for the lost world of the past, it's places like Ikaria they have in mind.

Re: The Island Where People Forget to Die

#47

Post by chongli »

Stratoscope wrote: post #7

Olives, hummus, and sourdough bread. Herbal teas, coffee and wine. Goat's milk and honey. Wild greens, beans, and olive oil. Work in the fields, gathering it all. A nap in the afternoon, and plenty of sex. This is a recipe for a long life.

Don't forget lots of socializing and a tight-knit community. And a lack of access to commercial processed foods. Temptation is a powerful thing!

Re: The Island Where People Forget to Die

#49

Post by Gurkenmaster »

Padding wrote: post #40
sdoering wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but to be honest, it's ineffectual life. This extra time will be spent being old. Whether you're 70 or 100, you will be frail, dim-witted[1], and unattractive. I have seldom read such an amazing load of (sorry, to say it this way) bullshit and disdain of the old/being old. I am in my thirties and I really am in awe the live, the doings, the stories of a lot of elders around me. Sorry, but how young are you? Getting…

> Getting older and eventually dying is imho, what defines our humanity. Maybe, but is that a good thing? To simply "expire out of existence" is a big issue for "humanity". It's the main reason why there's no proper answer to "what's the meaning of life" - whatever you do during your 50/70/120/.. years of life you'll eventually end up just as dead as the guy right next to you. Congratulations! Being immortal would al…

>20? Maybe. but How about being in the body of a 30- or 40-year old again? I can't imagine any 70-year olds not wanting to have a more "hassle-free" body, all other things being equal.

Nobody is going to pay for your pension forever. Do you really want to spend your entire life working?

Re: The Island Where People Forget to Die

#50

Post by draven »

Padding wrote: post #43
draven wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's ineffectual life Being happy and alive for 20 years more instead of being dead does sound pretty good from an individual standpoint to me.

> Being happy and alive for 20 years You're not thinking this through thoroughly. Being "happy" can be achieved with anti-depressants and being "alive" can be achieved by essentially turning you into a vegetable. You're happy and alive, yet I highly doubt this is what you had in mind when you wrote that line. You clearly want more than just being happy and alive. You also want to be free and an individual and have an…

My reply was semi sarcastic, and targeted at the assumption that being old equals having a useless life.

TFA states that most of the elderly still enjoy being part of a community and contributing to it, sharing their time and the food they grow. So in addition to being healthy and active, they have some kind of beneficial peer pressure to take part in the community. I doubt you'd get the same feeling of happiness and belonging by taking a daily dose of anti-depressants, but I have no experience with those. As for being alive, there's more to it than merely being not-dead :-)

I must admit I reacted mainly to the "ineffectual life" part of the comment which, to me, sounded like "they're not building a startup or trying to send people to Mars so it's useless", but there's a good chance I misinterpreted that part of the comment.

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