Factor – A practical stack language
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Factor – A practical stack language
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Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#2I want to like Factor. I've tried to use it a couple of times, and found at least under OSX that the samples I tried to compile (tetris and one other) didn't actually function.
More relevantly, I feel like Factor has lost the literal relationship between machine and software that is Forth's distinctive contribution. Our processors have drifted away from that mapping as well, though there are of course GreenArrays and a few other stack chips out there.
For a Forth that's pleasant to use and retains that feel, I suggest Retro. The Ngaro virtual machine is pure art, and the additions, particularly the [ and ] quotation words, are thoughtful contributions to the Forth lineage.
Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#3Maybe of interest: Zed Shaw, creator of Mongrel, gave a talk a few years back where he mentioned that he was using Factor to create the slides in his presentation.
Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#4It's entirely my own failing, but I just can't get the hang of postfix languages.
Feels too much like coding in Yodaspeak.
Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#5I've always wanted to learn a Lisp, but I've found Scheme too academic, so I ended up learning other variants such as Common Lisp and Clojure. Could the same thing be said about Factor vs Forth?
Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#6I want to like Factor. I've tried to use it a couple of times, and found at least under OSX that the samples I tried to compile (tetris and one other) didn't actually function. More relevantly, I feel like Factor has lost the literal relationship between machine and software that is Forth's distinctive contribution. Our processors have drifted away from that mapping as well, though there are of course GreenArrays and…
Thank you for the pointer. I enjoyed Forth long time ago and wanted to rekindle that love with Factor, but honestly I ran into bumps. I am not giving up, but will definitely check Retro.
Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#7I've always wanted to learn a Lisp, but I've found Scheme too academic, so I ended up learning other variants such as Common Lisp and Clojure. Could the same thing be said about Factor vs Forth?
Yes. Factor definitely has a much more modern feel but loses a lot of the purity. That said, Factor is still pretty "pure" by the standards of most languages.
Forthish languages are very interesting. I feel they might even represent a "third way" from the normal LISP / FORTRAN dichotomy.
Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#8I really love the power of Factor. It is probably the most powerful language I have ever come across.
That being said, I think there needs to be a more interactive method where you can see things on the stack in real time as you are programming.
I found myself not being able to focus on the problem I wanted to solve and instead was spending too much of my brainpower on remembering what was on the stack where.
If you study human computer interaction and cognetics the human brain can only remember so many short term memory "variables" at once. Programming in Factor uses up too many of those spaces.
I think the problem can be solved though if the development environment shows the stack at each point in time; that way the computer does the thinking instead of the programmer.
One way to do this is to supply some arguments to the word (function) and as you manipulate it in real time you can see how it is transformed. Your steps get recorded as the word.
This solves the problem of programming blind and having to play interpreter in your head as you are programming. Thus, freeing up cognitive space and making the programmer more efficient.
Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#9It's entirely my own failing, but I just can't get the hang of postfix languages. Feels too much like coding in Yodaspeak.
The Postscript language might be another chance for you to flex you postfix muscles. Still concatenative, dynamic programming, with built-in graphics.
Re: Factor – A practical stack language
#10I really love the power of Factor. It is probably the most powerful language I have ever come across. That being said, I think there needs to be a more interactive method where you can see things on the stack in real time as you are programming. I found myself not being able to focus on the problem I wanted to solve and instead was spending too much of my brainpower on remembering what was on the stack where. If you…
> I think the problem can be solved though if the development environment shows the stack at each point in time; that way the computer does the thinking instead of the programmer.
If you're up for it I have some code that I wrote with this very idea in mind, in Factor. I'll put it on github later today and put the link here anyway. I agree with you 100%. If Factor were transparent that way and interactive that way (to the point it's almost like a dialog, which it already almost is with its Listener but you and I want stack transparency) then it would probably be one of the most productive languages for fast prototyping (at least).