Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke • Hacker News Board

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#441

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

IceyEC wrote: post #438

crazy1van wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where nobody wants to be the first to keep their source closed and try to charge for it Seems like there's another option -- open source your project and also charge for a license to use it. By open sourcing people will trust it more which will cause its value to go up. And then more people would be willing to pay for it.

As I understand it, that's what he did. He open sourced it and kept copyright on it. That would mean that everybody would be free to read it as posted but wouldn't be able to use it or distribute it without permission.

Releasing something under an open source license usually involves retaining copyright but is, itself, giving permission to use, distribute, modify, and distribute modifications. Pretty much every open source project either retains copyright of the work or is composed of the work of developers who each retain copyright of their portion of the work.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#442

Post by whatsgood » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 2:03 PM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #419

whatsgood wrote: post #256

GNU is awesome in the way that 'Citizen Kane' is awesome. It is awesome because of what it accomplished given the context in which it was created. The context has changed but GNU, by and large, has not. "Free Software" gave us BSD and Linux, but it is also partially responsible for the privacy issues of Google and Facebook (neither of which would be as competitive if they had to pay licensing fees to Microsoft and Or…

Thought experiment: if there was no GPLv2, only GPLv3, would the same concerns apply? Have you come across promising alternative models? These would need to exhibit some properties of GNU-style free software and some properties of cash-cow commercial software. Thus, technical run-time mechanisms for software composition will play a key role in the new legal framework, just as linking (e.g. GPL vs LGPL) did in the GNU…

just saying, i don't think this guy is going broke for lack of trying.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#443

Post by ctdonath » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 2:13 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #434

ctdonath wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://developer.apple.com/xcode/downloads/ Free. Improve your lot however you like.

How does Apple figure into this? I did not mention Apple, I was countering the parent’s FUD, which also did not mention Apple.

Just one of many obvious examples that plenty of tools are available "allowing them the freedom to improve their lot." Nobody is stopping them, nobody is "keeping your users under your thumb". Improve your lot? do it yourself, or pay the engineers accordingly.

Oh, sure, Apple et al can change their minds and charge outrageous fees and demand outrageous licensing terms. Nonetheless, lots of affordable tools are available.

And before you take the opposing view any farther: I come from an era & mindset of building advanced computers from scratch. I reject the argument you offer of "by not giving them the source code you are [oppressing them]", because I'm trained in building computers starting from sand, and writing software starting with toggling in op codes with manual switches. I've written format converters (with no guiding documentation) to overcome the bounds you imply.

If you want someone to put in the effort to create complex software, maybe you should understand that they should be paid for that effort - one price to use it, and a higher price to get the detailed source code. If you're paying the price of a few cups of coffee to use it, heck yeah you're not getting the complete body of work a team spent years creating.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#444

Post by wtbob » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 2:49 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #323

zanny wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what happened behind the scenes that basically killed Ubuntu in its tracks. Circa 2008, before the Unity and Pulseaudio switches, it was considered by pretty much everyone the premiere Linux distro. I don't see why they could not get support contracts with Dell, HP, etc to sell Ubuntu computers and provide the tech support in exchange for positive cash flows. Even today Dell is still doing Sputnik and in Eur…

> I wonder what happened behind the scenes that basically killed Ubuntu in its tracks. Ubuntu has never been profitable for Canonical. Shuttleworth's game-plan was always long-term minded regarding Ubuntu -- but as we've seen as-of-late, Canonical is shifting focus to other markets they view as potentially profitable. Shuttleworth has committed to keeping Ubuntu alive, but it's no longer Canonical's sole hope for inc…

> Besides Sputnik, and some Linux-only end-user manufacturers like System76, there really isn't a lot of choice for pre-installed Linux end-user computers.

I've used System76 and Zareason. System76 are Ubuntu-only (and the hardware may have issue with other distros); Zareason will support any Linux.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#445

Post by lajarre » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 3:21 PM UTC

No one pointing to the fact that GPG has major issues like no perfect forward secrecy? Are we celebrating that big-brother money is funding a (out)dated technology??

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#446

Post by madhudj » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 3:34 PM UTC

Where can I see the list of all such Softwares (the essential and free) and the people behind them?

Is there a single place where the following details can be found?

Program Name, Company / Group Name, Description of the software, Link to their website, Yearly Budget (Required), Funded so far (out of the total yearly budget), How many people in the team?, Options to donate

I feel that the real problem is that the folks behind these amazing softwares are either too busy / too nice / too shy (for philosophical reasons) to promote, organize, gather funds? And in the busy world, their very existence is forgotten by the rest of us.

If there are none like this, why not we build one and I would like to start it so others can join in later. To help these guys around the year and not just when we get to see an blog post like this one.

Any thoughts / comments ?

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#447

Post by Alupis » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 3:43 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #400

Alupis wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not quite how it gets expensed (nor how it works). Canonical's cloud business might be profitable (even though Canonical as a whole is very-mush-so-not), however their cloud business is not coupled to Ubuntu, ie. they could use any Linux Distro, or any OS for the matter. Ubuntu is a total loss center for Canonical. It's surprising to a lot of people given it's popularity... but popularity doesn't equal profita…

"Ubuntu is a total loss center for Canonical" Typical beancounter mentality. Probably comes with a suggestion of closing this division and going with something else OF COURSE this department loses money. But it is a net gain for the company, and in fact without it the rest wouldn't exist.

> OF COURSE this department loses money.

Not sure what "of course" means here... it's very possible to be profitable off your OS Development division... look at Red Hat, SUSE, etc. They pay for the development from support payments... they collect support payments because enterprise wants their OS... it's a positive feedback loop. The better the OS, the more enterprise pays, the more funding RH can put into the OS dev team, the better the OS gets, the more support fees they collect, etc etc etc...

Canonical has not been able to successfully charge for support like RH and SUSE have figured out.

> But it is a net gain for the company, and in fact without it the rest wouldn't exist.

It's not a net gain unless the company can be profitable as a whole and subsidize (and justify the enormous expense) off-put by tertiary services, etc.

... right now Ubuntu project is responsible for Canonical being perpetually in the red... every quarter, since their foundation. Canonical could very well just run enterprise support contracts, or push their cloud services. They don't have to use Ubuntu... any OS would suffice. They aren't somehow coupled to Ubuntu to the point if Ubuntu didn't exist, Canonical wouldn't either.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#448

Post by prof_hobart » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 3:44 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #125

mentat wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was when distribution was via physical media. People don't value bits on the wire the same way nor view "distribution" as a valuable function.

Then is selling apps on app stores not profitable anymore? I was under the impression that it was.

Assuming I'm reading this [1] right, the FSF seem to believe that Apple App Store (where the majority of mobile app profits are being made) isn't compatible with the GPL.

[1] https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store...

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#449

Post by Alupis » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 3:46 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #402

Alupis wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what happened behind the scenes that basically killed Ubuntu in its tracks. Ubuntu has never been profitable for Canonical. Shuttleworth's game-plan was always long-term minded regarding Ubuntu -- but as we've seen as-of-late, Canonical is shifting focus to other markets they view as potentially profitable. Shuttleworth has committed to keeping Ubuntu alive, but it's no longer Canonical's sole hope for inc…

> Canonical is shifting focus to other markets they view as potentially profitable. Is it about profits, or - I'm going to be kind of cynical here - chasing taillights? The way they seem to bounce around from one thing to another (mobile phones! embedded!) makes it feel like the latter.

> The way they seem to bounce around from one thing to another

I tend to agree... modern Canonical feels like a company that lacks focus (probably because they aren't quite sure what the focus ought to be after realizing Ubuntu might not ever turn a profit for them).

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#450

Post by Alupis » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 3:56 PM UTC

wtbob wrote: post #444

Alupis wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what happened behind the scenes that basically killed Ubuntu in its tracks. Ubuntu has never been profitable for Canonical. Shuttleworth's game-plan was always long-term minded regarding Ubuntu -- but as we've seen as-of-late, Canonical is shifting focus to other markets they view as potentially profitable. Shuttleworth has committed to keeping Ubuntu alive, but it's no longer Canonical's sole hope for inc…

> Besides Sputnik, and some Linux-only end-user manufacturers like System76, there really isn't a lot of choice for pre-installed Linux end-user computers. I've used System76 and Zareason. System76 are Ubuntu-only (and the hardware may have issue with other distros); Zareason will support any Linux.

You know, I actually didn't know about Zareason. Their website seems to have pretty reasonable price for the hardware you are getting, and I love having a choice of my preferred distro to run (I'm a Fedora guy).

I run full-time linux on my laptop and my goto hardware has typically been a Thinkpad T series.