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Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

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Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#91

Post by eitland »

gandalfu wrote: post #15
agwa wrote: post #4

Calling GnuPG "email encryption software" really understates its importance. It's also used in countless applications to encrypt data at rest, and GPG signatures are used to secure the distribution of software. For instance, GPG is an essential part of the package managers of Debian, Ubuntu, and RedHat. Here is a link to the donation page: https://gnupg.org/donate/index.html

Thanks for the link, just donated!

This might be one of a few places where I will upvote "me too"-comments.

And, as others have pointed out it is easy and you can choose between cc and PayPal.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#92

Post by dublinben »

ianlevesque wrote: post #66
jordigh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder sometimes if this is the legacy that RMS was thinking about. No. Free software was never about no money being involved. In fact, RMS himself used to get a lot of money by selling free software. Back in the day when Emacs was too big for the internet, RMS used to sell Emacs tapes at 100 USD each (with documentation and source code, of course). In fact, he still thinks that you should be charging money for d…

> Sadly, it doesn't seem to be happening this way. I don't understand why not. In at least one case it's because a single open source contributor with an ideological conflict with App Stores was able to get an app removed: http://www.tuaw.com/2011/01/08/vlc-app-removed-from-app-stor...

You're really mischaracterizing the VLC case. It wasn't "a single open source contributor with an ideological conflict," but one of the lead contributors pointing out the incompatibility between the GPL and Apple Store ToS.[0]

By the way, VLC has been relicensed as MPL and is now available for iOS again.[1]

[0]https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance/ [1]http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-ios.html

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#93

Post by ekidd »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #34

I wonder sometimes if this is the legacy that RMS was thinking about. Sometimes, in my more cynical moments, it seems like we have somehow managed to trick a whole generation of programmers into giving "free stuff" to the world, enabling the creation of the very successful mega corporations which have then kept the value for themselves. Would it be impossible to create some sort of stipend program at FSF? After all t…

As jordigh points out, RMS has always been quite happy to charge money for software. For example, the FSF sells a $5,000 "Deluxe Distribution" compiled for a platform of your choice: http://gnu.ist.utl.pt/order/order.html I've spoken to various people at the FSF, and they're generally quite enthusiastic about charging money for GPLed software.

But to make a larger point, if you try to model RMS's behavior using cynicism, you'll tend to make inaccurate predictions. To use a metaphor, his brain is running slightly non-standard software: His social skills are not quite compatible with standard protocols, but he will go to far greater than ordinary lengths to uphold his personal moral principles. I've dealt with RMS and/or the FSF a couple of times, and once I decided to assume that RMS wants exactly what he claims he wants, dealing with the FSF was actually rather pleasant.

Thus, if Stallman thought that programmers should live ascetic lives, he would have written long essays justifying why this was correct. But instead, he wrote long essays about why sharing and hacking on software was a Good Thing, and added (almost as an aside) that you are welcome to charge as much as the market will bear, and that doing so may often be a good decision.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#94

Post by higherpurpose »

agwa wrote: post #4

Calling GnuPG "email encryption software" really understates its importance. It's also used in countless applications to encrypt data at rest, and GPG signatures are used to secure the distribution of software. For instance, GPG is an essential part of the package managers of Debian, Ubuntu, and RedHat. Here is a link to the donation page: https://gnupg.org/donate/index.html

Shouldn't it be part of that Core Infrastructure Initiative project then?

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#95

Post by pyre »

jordigh wrote: post #42
ChuckMcM wrote: post #34

I wonder sometimes if this is the legacy that RMS was thinking about. Sometimes, in my more cynical moments, it seems like we have somehow managed to trick a whole generation of programmers into giving "free stuff" to the world, enabling the creation of the very successful mega corporations which have then kept the value for themselves. Would it be impossible to create some sort of stipend program at FSF? After all t…

> I wonder sometimes if this is the legacy that RMS was thinking about. No. Free software was never about no money being involved. In fact, RMS himself used to get a lot of money by selling free software. Back in the day when Emacs was too big for the internet, RMS used to sell Emacs tapes at 100 USD each (with documentation and source code, of course). In fact, he still thinks that you should be charging money for d…

> We give you the code, you can do whatever you want with it, but if you want to build on top of ours

The problem here is determining where the divide between "using the software" and "building on top of ours" is. The line becomes blurry when the software is (e.g.) a library where the basic use of the library is to base other software off of it (as opposed to a desktop app -- e.g. GnuCash -- where "usage" has a more straight-forward meaning).

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#96

Post by erichmond »

fivedogit wrote: post #83
hf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using Ubuntu, I see from your profile. How much have you paid them? This is how the stories goes: we haven't figured out how to make good work worthwhile. Perhaps we can learn something from our vast experience in profitably peddling shit?

We're our own worst enemies. Software developers have this sort of circular firing squad where nobody wants to be the first to keep their source closed and try to charge for it. Because then you're just "greedy" and not pure enough. But that'll never change unless all of a sudden we say "Ok, on the count of 3, everybody stop giving away their hard-earned expertise for free. 1... 2... 3..." We're like musicians nowada…

Why in the world would this be downvoted? There is nothing inflammatory about this post at all. He's bringing up a widely debated point in our industry.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#98

Post by tedks »

mseebach wrote: post #26

Given the general scarcity of talent in the business, it should really be trivial for a high end IT security consultancy to pay Werner a €3000/month (ie. enough to live on, if not extravagantly) retainer to be available ~10 hours a month to consult on encryption matters (or something like that). I wonder if it all really comes down to "Really I am better at programming than this business stuff." or if there is some u…

>It seems to me there's a parallel to someone like Moxie Marlinspike who's vaguely in the same field, but seems to be doing very well for himself.

Moxie Marlinspike was doing well for himself when he was squatting in pgh and train-hopping, too. Some people are just better at coercing life into doing what they want to do. I think it helps that Moxie is probably a few standard deviations more intelligent than most humans, but that's just a bonus.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#99

Post by pyre »

hf wrote: post #64
rmc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't those organisations paying him money?

You are using Ubuntu, I see from your profile. How much have you paid them? This is how the stories goes: we haven't figured out how to make good work worthwhile. Perhaps we can learn something from our vast experience in profitably peddling shit?

> You are using Ubuntu, I see from your profile. How much have you paid them?

It's easier for businesses to write off these type donations (and make them for significant amounts) than for private individuals to do so.

Re: Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who Is Going Broke

#100

Post by mason55 »

hf wrote: post #71
peapicker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems odd that the MANY projects dependent on GPG don't donate enough to GPG to employ one guy. Do Free Software project with funding 'pay it forward' to the volunteers on other projects they heavily depend on? (I don't really know) If not, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

I freely confess to being flabbergasted by these displays of less-than-rigorous thought processes. How would a free software project 'pay it forward'? They are in a very similar position, aren't they? Edit: For some reason, I can't reply to child comments (probably a cool-off time-out at work?). Just a short note here, then: $1.25e6 for the FSF translates to 10 developers like Koch being paid (the donation page quote…

> How would a free software project 'pay it forward'?

As mentioned by the grandparent comment, GPG is in use by Debian, Ubuntu and RedHat package managers. Whether or not you count those three as free software they have plenty of money to pay forward to a piece of software that underpins their entire stacks.

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