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Testosterone is the drug of the future

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Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#291

Post by johnward »

cheepin wrote: post #279
hoka wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree that it should be up to the professionals, but consider amateurs moving into professional sports. If college football players can't take steroids, they will get __destroyed__ in the NFL. If college players can take steroids, then highschool players will stand no chance at moving up. Likewise, if you make it fine for high school players, middle school gets punished, etc. I don't doubt that professionals cou…

I think you are being a bit generous in assuming that a steroid ban in professional sports means that they are not used. In practice, it means that they must use them clandestinely, but I wouldn't be surprised if a future analysis reveals most of our top athletes of today are using PEDs. Additionally, highschool athletes are generally untested, meaning that highschool is their one opportunity to get ahead by whatever…

It's hard t believe NFL players can maintain that size without some type of help. There is definitely a lot of unreported PED usage going on.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#292

Post by chrisbennet »

camouso wrote: post #246
chrisbennet wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While DHEA may indeed be effective, if 80% of the natural supplements that were tested did not contain what the label said, one might conclude that there is an 80% chance that a bottle labeled "DHEA" really doesn't contain DHEA.

80% of /store brand herbal/ supplements. This is an important distinction. Brand names were fine.

Yes, after closer reading of the news articles it does seem that they only mentioned "store brands". However, I couldn't find anything where it said brand names were "OK".

My Google foo is failing me, I can't seem to find an actual report, just news articles. Help a fella out with a link?

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#293

Post by ryanmarsh »

cgh wrote: post #256
ryanmarsh wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just finished a run of pro hormones designed to increase T. See my twitter as proof. Within a week my shoulders got bigger and I dropped 6lbs. I had no other change in diet and swam (my workout) less because I'm developing swimmer's shoulder. The downside? I just couldn't take it any more. My mind raced about sex (complete with random boners) and raged about everything else. It was like being 18 again. I realize no…

I had a look at your Twitter feed but I didn't see where you named the specific supplements you used. Can you list them here? Curious to see what they are. I've only ever found tongkat ali to produce a noticeable effect.

http://i.imgur.com/bwNeqiQ.jpg

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#294

Post by lectrick »

zdc wrote: post #261
lectrick wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obstructive sleep apnea increases cortisol levels which in turn decrease testosterone levels. Source: I have obstructive sleep apnea and low testosterone, both of which are being treated finally, and my income rose by... triple? quadruple? ever since

What did you do to take care of your sleep apnea? Just curious, as a sufferer of OSA as well.

I use a CPAP machine. But I don't like it that much, and complicating matters are allergies which stuff up my nose and make it less effective.

I'm looking into getting an operation at some point, but first I have to lose a few more pounds, which I am in the process of doing.

I CAN say that being ON cpap vs. OFF cpap is already a world of difference... as unsexy as that thing is.

See if you can get used to one. The latest ones have a "soft nasal pillow" thing that doesn't cover your entire nose (thank God), look into ResMed Swift FX and any later lines.

The available operations, unfortunately, do not have a 100% success rate... except for one, which is kind of drastic (and basically separates your jaw and moves the whole thing forward and requires like a 6 month recovery).

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#295

Post by dsjoerg »

vannevar wrote: post #232
dsjoerg wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the reduction fallacy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_the_single_cause )? I looked around for a "reductionist fallacy" but couldn't find anything. Or are you instead saying that the reductionist view is wrong, and you like to call things you disagree with fallacies.

The latter.

I like your honesty and your brevity.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#296

Post by dcotton »

lectrick wrote: post #294
zdc wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you do to take care of your sleep apnea? Just curious, as a sufferer of OSA as well.

I use a CPAP machine. But I don't like it that much, and complicating matters are allergies which stuff up my nose and make it less effective. I'm looking into getting an operation at some point, but first I have to lose a few more pounds, which I am in the process of doing. I CAN say that being ON cpap vs. OFF cpap is already a world of difference... as unsexy as that thing is. See if you can get used to one. The la…

Thanks for posting about the ResMed Swift FX, I use a Mirage Activa, and kind of want to change so I don't have to shave my upper lip everyday. I might try the Swift FX out shortly, my current mask needs replacing.

I will also add for the other poster(s), properly treating sleep apnea is huge for overall health, and helps you feel a lot better everyday. Risk of stroke goes down and a lot of other big health impacts.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#297

Post by delecti »

pyre wrote: post #208
delecti wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the healthy living things that drive up T result in a longer lifespan, but I also don't see any conflict in thinking that it would make you live even longer still if not for that higher T.

True, but this: > If testosterone is the culprit for increased risk of coronary artery disease, prostate cancer and sleep apnea, then doing things that naturally increase testosterone will increase risk also. states that the result of higher T through natural processes is increased risk. It discounts the possibility that there is a net decreased risk due to the processes themselves decreasing risk to the point that i…

That quote is from a comment, which was speculation. I'm not sure it has enough support to be used as counter-evidence to what I said.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#298

Post by johnward »

nether wrote: post #245
johnward wrote: post #107

I'm 28 now and I have hypogonadisn and have experience using T and other options like clomid. My total T was I finally went to the doc. Got the blood work and was put ona low dosage of Testosterone. Enough to get me to the 500ng/dl range. My quality of life improved dramatically and I was the happy and productive person I used to be. I felt like I did in my early 20s instead of like I was approaching 50. Now I have t…

I got measured for low T. My urologist refused to approve TRT because according to him, there is no real "correct level" of testosterone, and that measurement is highly variable depending on the time of day. He kept telling me testosterone is not an antidepressant. Found another urologist who disagreed and told me to go through dhtcream.com. Still depressed, but I am growing more facial hair.

T can be part of depression but not the entire issue. I also found out a had sleep apnea which impacted my ability to think, my depression level, energy levels, etc. Normally if I am on T shots I am completely fine. If not I am up and down emotionally. If a doc isn't doing what you want you fire them, like you did, and find another.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#299

Post by Perceval »

pbowyer wrote: post #258
kingmanaz wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Don't succumb to the reductionist fallacy. The body is complex, and more than the sum of its parts The above needs to be repeated more often, particularly on HN. Tech culture is overdue for an epistemological yin to its empiricist yang.

Can you put the yin bit into layman's speak please? How does it differ to empiricist?

Empiricism (especially in its behavioralist variety) is premised on the ability to collect data and draw inductive conclusions from the data.

Epistemology is the study of how things can be known, what can be known, or what the limits to knowability are. How can we justify a belief based on a collection of observations?

davak began with the assertion that testosterone is linked to a number of health problems.

mironathetin notes that studies of the negative health implications of testosterone were often performed on professional athletes, who are going to have high baseline levels of testosterone naturally, and who have in all likelihood supplemented with large doses of testosterone at various points in their career/training. But, mironathetin notes that positive lifestyle changes can increase your body's natural production of testosterone without the need for supplementation.

golemotron is skeptical that naturally increasing testosterone will lead to different health implications than the studies indicated. They posit that there is a direct relationship between testosterone levels and health risks.

vannevar responds that because the body is a system, non-linear and feedback effects are much more likely to control the health effects of testosterone than a simple linear relationship between testosterone and health risk.

kingmanaz agrees and calls golemotron's position reductionist, which means that golemotron implicitly believes that one can understand a phenomenon by understanding and measuring each of its component parts (empiricism). An epistemological critique of golemotron's position would begin with an assertion that the whole is different from the sum of the parts, because the parts interact with each other, producing non-linear effects. One must understand the gestalt, not just the parts. Induction straight from data will often miss things that holism might not.

For an accessible critique of data and inductivism, you might pick up a copy of Nassim Nicholas Taleb's Fooled by Randomness. If you are interested in systemic non-linearity in political science, check out Robert Jervis's System Effects.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#300

Post by collyw »

tomsthumb wrote: post #244
collyw wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just turned 40 and I get a lot more wound up by incompetent workmates or similar things than I did 20 years ago.

Your "get off my lawn" levels have likely gone through the roof. Ask your doctor for a screening.

screening for what?
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