Earlier quoted context omitted.
You appear to be quite against this (judging by your other posts on the matter). The fact remains that the current system is not going to hold, and that left to its own devices will end up with a bunch of walled gardens and other issues. I agree that it is wise to be wary of regulation in this case--but honestly, I think it's time we at least experiment. The market and regulatory forces at play have basically forced…
My complaint is that everyone's ignoring the economics of the situation. What becomes apparent if you dig into the numbers is that there's no money in building these networks, at least at scale--they are justified only when there's a money-making opportunity with respect to the content flowing through them. Historically, this has been the cable video service that brings in the lion's share of revenue. Even with Googl…
FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
231–240 of 437 posts
Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#232Is there something going on here that's not obvious?
Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the most likely possibility is that the telcos attack this to the point where it gets de-fanged or turned away entirely. Part of congress is already mobilizing against this movement.
>> Part of congress is already mobilizing against this movement. An unusually large segment of the public is paying attention to this. To kill it will require actively voting in favor of a bill. Seems like a big career risk for a politician.
Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tom Wheeler has really outdone himself with this announcement. It'll apply to mobile networks as well! Turns out this dingo knows how to stand up for what's right! I know it's early but this is a great step forward.
I'm really impressed with Wheeler. When he was nominated, all the news was about how he was a lobbyist for the cable companies, and it was a perfect example of cronyism. But he's really been knocking it out of the park. Aggressive on net neutrality, redefining broadband, trying to restore municipal Internet. I'm very glad to have been wrong about my initial impressions.
Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#235Using this authority, I am submitting to my colleagues the strongest open internet protections ever proposed by the FCC. These enforceable, bright-line rules will ban paid prioritization, and the blocking and throttling of lawful content and services. I propose to fully apply—for the first time ever—those bright-line rules to mobile broadband. My proposal assures the rights of internet users to go where they want, wh…
Great, we finally get to exercise our freedoms!
> ... enforceable bright-line rules will ban ...
Oh, I see, now the "innovators" just have more regulation they have to deal with. Now they have to ask for ANOTHER entity's permission?
Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm against net neutrality. To me it looks like more regulation for not enough gain. I don't see why we should stop the free market; if one internet provider is doing things you don't like, another one will open and the consumer can change to that one if they care. I also feel that companies should have a right to provide some websites at higher speeds. There will always be a trade off; perhaps you could get cheaper…
This would work great! Except that there aren't 20 providers to choose from, there's usually one, maybe two. And the two providers you generally expect to have do not care anything for consumer experience. They also lobby for other companies (or even townships) to not be able to set up their own fiber/cable connections. The lack of regulation you want already exists, and it's starting to strangle free and open commun…
>And the two providers you generally expect to have do not care anything for consumer experience.
In a free market, this fact means that people don't care enough about their experience. If they cared enough, they would choose based on that, instead of on price.
>They also lobby for other companies (or even townships) to not be able to set up their own fiber/cable connections.
I would support strongly any attempt to make it easier for companies to open up new internet providers. Again, the reason there aren't so many options is because of regulations.
>The lack of regulation you want already exists, and it's starting to strangle free and open communication as we know it.
Give an example of a free market that doesn't have any net neutrality options, but has consumers that want it.
>Also, not sure if this is clear, but net neutrality doesn't regulate prices. Companies can charge whatever they want for their service. The only thing that's regulated is how they treat data...all data must be treated the same. Other than that restriction, companies can do whatever they want. I don't really see how this could be viewed badly. Yes, people seem to really like the "regulation is bad" argument lately, but it doesn't really apply here, nor does it work as a blanket statement.
I know what net neutrality is regulating, and I don't think that choice should be taken away from companies. I'm against government doing something that can be done by the consumer.
Why doesn't the regulation is bad argument work here?
As a consumer, I can see instances where I'd prefer to have cheaper service rather than pay more for net neutrality.
What about wikipedia and other sites that can be accessed for free in some countries, but wouldn't if nn was implemented? Have you seen http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25... or http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-jus...
There are plenty of use cases for not-nn.
And again, if the consumer decided they really want it, then choose a provider that offers it.
Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#237Make a deal with the Devil and you'll only get burned. The FCC regulating the internet, what could go wrong?
Future HN comments when things go wrong: This isn't what we wanted... We never indented for X to be interpreted that way... It would have worked, but they didn't go far enough... It would have worked, but they went too far... We need this new law X to protect the cable companies because upstart Y's new technology doesn't have to deal with FCC regulation which gives it an unfair advantage... Give it ten years and the…
Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I couldn't imagine if Romney was in office right now...
I suspect it might possibly be the same. Public sentiment is pretty strong about it, and it would be easy for the Republicans to take the angle of "freedom for small businesses and the free market" or whatever.
In Romney's own words:
It is not the role of any government to “manage” the
Internet. The Internet has flourished precisely because
government has so far refrained from regulating this
dynamic and essential cornerstone of our economy. I
would rely primarily on innovation and market forces,
not bureaucrats, to shape the Internet and maximize its
economic, social and scientific value.
Specifically, the FCC’s “Net Neutrality” regulation
represents an Obama campaign promise fulfilled on behalf
of certain special interests, but ultimately a “solution”
in search of a problem. The government has now interjected
itself in how networks will be constructed and managed,
picked winners and losers in the marketplace, and
determined how consumers will receive access to tomorrow’s
new applications and services. The Obama Administration’s
overreaching has replaced innovators and investors with
Washington bureaucrats.
From here: http://sciencedebate.org/2012/debate12/#9Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand that there may be some "hidden costs" that current consumers of broadband in the US don't see. I can also imagine the possibility that un-bundled broadband may be more expensive than current rates (though I can imagine other possibilities as well). What I have a hard time understanding is your implied argument here: that by forcing a bundle on consumers that includes a high-margin product (cable TV) as w…
You are working on a different notion of "bundling" than rayiner. He's not talking about selling you TV with your internet. Bundling, in the sense that the FCC is referring to it, is the bundling of internet service with the physical infrastructure it's delivered on. Un-bundling in this case doesn't mean they have to sell you ESPN without HBO, it means they have to let third-party operators operate on their wiring, s…
Given your premise: I can imagine that, with improper price setting by the FCC, this mandatory wholesale infrastructure sharing could be problematic (long-term unprofitable and thus discouraging towards infrastructure investment).
Priced appropriately to the cost of provision of service, however, how does this put the infrastructure builder (Comcast, Level 3, or whomever else) on unfair footing? It just means Comcast the builder has to expect the same rents from Comcast the service provider as it does from Netflix the service provider.
Forgive me for missing the point - I expect you and rayiner understand this far better than I do and I'm trying to catch up.
Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality
#240Why are libertarians so pro- free market when this is a perfect example of how the 'unregulated free market' has no problem manipulating in the name of greed and control at the expense of consumers? This seems to be strong evidence that government is better at keeping trade free than an 'unregulated free market'?
X isn't perfect, so Y must be better? That makes no sense.
I'm pro-free market because I go into the grocery store and see an entire row of bread. In communism, there is an entire row of people waiting for bread. Free market == abundance, government == rationing.
I use communism as the example because it is the opposite of free-market and highlights the historical (not ideological) differences between the two systems. Free markets have a triage effect. When supplies are limited, prices go up, and if you really need something you can still get it (but you'll pay more).
The opposite of that system is one of price fixing and rationing. You may need something more than me, but the price is fixed at X, so there needs to be a lottery to decide who gets the limited supply. If I win, I get to watch fail videos on youtube all day. If you win, you get to run your online business that day.
ISPs are struggling to keep up with demand. They've been trying to price their services in a way to triage demand while they build more capacity (which is mostly held up by local governments). Now the FCC will step in and make sure that I can watch my youtube videos all day and make it illegal for the ISP to favor your clearly more important traffic.