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FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

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Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#101

Post by myth_buster »

mikegioia wrote: post #6

Using this authority, I am submitting to my colleagues the strongest open internet protections ever proposed by the FCC. These enforceable, bright-line rules will ban paid prioritization, and the blocking and throttling of lawful content and services. I propose to fully apply—for the first time ever—those bright-line rules to mobile broadband. My proposal assures the rights of internet users to go where they want, wh…

This reads exceedingly well but the devil is in the detail. As we have seen countless times that there is significant difference between what gets proposed and what gets passed. As others have stated

> will ban paid prioritization, and the blocking and throttling of lawful content and services.

the keyword here is lawful. Will all content be lawful unless proven otherwise?

Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#102

Post by warfangle »

innguest wrote: post #65
shortformblog wrote: post #59

The comments on this post are some of the most depressing things I've ever read in response to a regulatory decision. References to Tom Wheeler being a Nazi. Someone calling the plan "Obama-fi." A user who says this: > tom wheeler, seriously, it would be a great thing if you and everyone like you contracted ebola and died a horrible death. This is like giving the entire U.S. population free pizza for a year, and half…

Because you don't understand their argument, they must be wrong, right? And no I can't explain you their argument because whenever I do so I get downvoted. The government wants their hands on all means of communication. The FCC basically shunned the public from using radio waves and TV waves. Now they're going to shun us away from the internet. The same organization, the FCC, will do this as they previously did with…

There's a difference between trying to explain your point of view and fulfilling godwin's law...

Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#103

Post by remarkEon »

innguest wrote: post #62
evanb wrote: post #45

I violated Responsible Reading Of The Internet Rule #1 and accidentally looked at the comments. I am having a hard time reconciling the vehement anti-net-neutrality anti-government hair-on-fire screaming there with the reasoned discussion and general attitude here---I would have thought the majority of readers of Wired would be of similar mind to HN readers.

You thought Wired readers were as naive and as communist as you and you're disappointed they are smarter and more cynical. Boo. Hoo. There's no reasoned discussion in HN as discussions get downvoted. There's only a huge circle back-patting which your comment is a part of.

So did you have a thoughtful, reasoned argument against this proposal or what?

Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#104

Post by shmerl »

pekk wrote: post #97
shmerl wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think reality is already on the heavy surveillance side as known (like this example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A ). So some push should be done in the opposite direction.

The question was about unlawful content . The NSA isn't particularly interested in unlawful content, its surveillance has a goal of intelligence gathering rather than detection of unlawful content. I understand the NSA is associated with all kinds of serious issues, but it doesn't help us figure anything else out when the subject changes to NSA even when it doesn't really apply.

The point is not about content and NSA, but about surveillance. I.e. it's already here, and tools for it are here as well. I wouldn't see it as a far stretch if all the same tools would be used for all kind of unlawful content hunting. Why should they reinvent the wheel?

Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#105

Post by smutticus »

shmerl wrote: post #64
mikegioia wrote: post #6

Using this authority, I am submitting to my colleagues the strongest open internet protections ever proposed by the FCC. These enforceable, bright-line rules will ban paid prioritization, and the blocking and throttling of lawful content and services. I propose to fully apply—for the first time ever—those bright-line rules to mobile broadband. My proposal assures the rights of internet users to go where they want, wh…

> These enforceable, bright-line rules will ban paid prioritization, and the blocking and throttling of lawful content and services. My concern is, how are they going to define lawful content and services, and more importantly, how are they going to determine it in practice? It can easily translate into some heavy handed surveillance systems which analyze the lawfulness of the whole network.

That's not a decision the FCC gets to make. Congress and the courts ultimately decide what is considered lawful content. These rules need to withstand changes that Congress might enact in the future. If Congress decides to force ISPs to block a certain kind of traffic, the FCC cannot disallow ISPs from blocking it with their rules.

They basically just include the word 'lawful' to allow ISPs to block unlawful traffic. Think specifically of DDOS attacks, you wouldn't want to disallow an ISP from blackholing DDOS packets.

Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#106

Post by GeneralMayhem »

noobermin wrote: post #58
0x5f3759df-i wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lobbying has been in full effect for a year, looks like they already lost this one.

I'm curious, how much effect do lobbyists have on the FCC, since they aren't exactly elected officials?

The less ethical approach would be to insinuate to Mr. Wheeler that he'll be blackballed when he gets out of office.

The more ethical approach would be to lobby Congress to pass laws that override the FCC's decision. Republicans don't have a veto-proof majority, but that's never stopped anyone before - tricks with riders unrelated to the main bill can effectively neuter the veto power.

Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#107

Post by dragonwriter »

kevinchen wrote: post #78

> my proposal includes a general conduct rule that can be used to stop new and novel threats to the internet. This means the action we take will be strong enough and flexible enough not only to deal with the realities of today, but also to establish ground rules for the as yet unimagined. What does that mean? Sounds like a euphemism for an Internet kill switch?

From the text and context, it sounds like in addition to the bright-line rules on things like throttling, paid prioritization, and blocking of lawful content and services, there is a more general rule prohibiting conduct by ISPs that discriminates against or impedes access to lawful content but doesn't fall into neat buckets of blocking, throttling, etc.

But, yeah, this is one thing (of many) that its going to be worth reading the actual text, when it is made public, to understand.

Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#109

Post by maxsilver »

dantheman wrote: post #28

This looks much better than what I feared. I'm glad they're just not regulating it under Title II, but are modernizing it: For example, there will be no rate regulation, no tariffs, no last-mile unbundling.

Why not?

"Just regulating (Cable and Fiber) under Title II" would have been a far better outcome, as far as I can tell.

Rate regulation and last-mile unbundling are the keys to useful internet access. Without those, 95+% of Americans are still forced to buy internet from Comcast and Verizon, with whatever prices, stipulations, and conditions they decide to enforce.

Certainly, this situation could have turned out far worse. But I don't see it as a win in any significant way. It simply reinforces internet service as a monopoly land-grab business.

Re: FCC Chairman: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality

#110

Post by jonathanpglick »

evanb wrote: post #45

I violated Responsible Reading Of The Internet Rule #1 and accidentally looked at the comments. I am having a hard time reconciling the vehement anti-net-neutrality anti-government hair-on-fire screaming there with the reasoned discussion and general attitude here---I would have thought the majority of readers of Wired would be of similar mind to HN readers.

Yeah, I was shocked at comments, people completely missing the point.
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