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Testosterone is the drug of the future

fusion.net

111–120 of 308 posts

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#111

>I was just at the gym watching the 30-year-olds at the pull-up bar building muscles in three weeks. And I’m at the pull up bar and nothing’s happening While many of you are thinking that he's making excuses (he might be) or that the other guys worked long and hard to build muscle, I can relate: I've been lifting weights three times a week for the last four years. I still look average, and yes I'm eating and exercisi…

>I've been lifting weights three times a week for the last four years. I still look average, and yes I'm eating and exercising properly.

People always says this. They always eat well and recover properly, but they just can't make any gains. Everyone else can, but they can't and instead of looking at the simplest explanation, they do hurdles to convince themselves they have low test and that's why they're not perfect. Have you been going to a trainer? A nutritionist? Might want to check out other alternatives before taking synthetic hormones. And get off /fit/. This seems like the kind of genius idea that someone on /fit/ came up with.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#112

As someone who went from 430 ng/dl to 1024 ng/dl naturally in about two years time (from age 23 to 25) the only thing I can say is don't jump to too many conclusions here. - Your testosterone should be naturally high if you're below 30 (and male) - If not, something is wrong and you need to fix it (start with blood work, check your diet, move) - If you testosterone is in the normal ranges (blood work recommends betwe…

" I didn't get huge muscles or less body fat with more testosterone (huge myth that I thought would change for me)".

For me I almost always drop 20lbs on T and am much leaner than I am off or on clomid. On clomid I generally gain weight.

"- TRT is a problem if you keep going for too long, because your body just doesn't produce testosterone as it used to, because it expects it from the outside, so below 35 or rather below 40 year olds: don't sign up for this too quickly."

You can counteract this by taking ancillaries while on T. There are drugs that can restore the LH and FSH that get suppressed by testosterone but this is a valid concern. 100mg of T per week made me basically infertile but clomid brought me back to normal after a few weeks.

Diet and nutrition is very important if you want to keep optimum T levels. This forum post, not written by anyone in the medical field, has a pretty list of possible causes outside of supplementing with T. http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_trainin...

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#113
post #26

As someone who went from 430 ng/dl to 1024 ng/dl naturally in about two years time (from age 23 to 25) the only thing I can say is don't jump to too many conclusions here. - Your testosterone should be naturally high if you're below 30 (and male) - If not, something is wrong and you need to fix it (start with blood work, check your diet, move) - If you testosterone is in the normal ranges (blood work recommends betwe…

>- I didn't get huge muscles or less body fat with more testosterone (huge myth that I thought would change for me) The many studies done on this subject show that testosterone makes a huge impact on muscle growth. Take this 10 week study for instance, http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101 . The placebo group working out didn't experience nearly as much muscle gain as those taking testosterone did…

The original poster had High T levels to start with. Maybe he didn't notice much of a change. I noticed a significant change going from <120ng/dl to 500ng/dl (still less than OP). I always drop weight when I am on T and get much leaner without changing anything else. Well it does make it easier to work out and diet but even without any changes it makes a big difference. Each time I go off and onto something else like clomiphene I gain 20-30lbs that is not lean at all.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#114

I went through a major testosterone-related health scare when I was 31 (4 years ago). I was in the midst of launching a startup. Stressed out, financially strained, hardly sleeping, hardly exercising, drinking too much. I thought I was eating right but turns out I wasn't. I began feeling like an empty shell of my former self. And yes, it totally affected my sex drive. Went to doc and had blood work done. My test leve…

Studies have shown that creams are pretty terrible. Especially if you happen to have thyroid problems. They seem to work at first and then fade out for a lot of people. Shots just simply work and are cheaper.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#115
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is meaningless to speculate on this without a concrete paper doing a concrete comparison of a specific concrete form of meditation vs. a concrete form of placebo, and without knowing whether or not the placebo was compared to a control group doing nothing. You're right, it could mean there's nothing to train and practice. It also could mean there'd be a substantial placebo effect and a big gap from "doing nothing"…

Great answer, and I agree with you. As a practicer it doesn't really matters as long as you get your dose of well-beingness. I was more thinking of all the "train yourself to meditate" thing which can end with more frustration than relaxation for some, relatively of the scientific measure of this training (which is imperfect as we just saw). On a side-note, I practice relaxation on the evening and I don't see such hu…

I only practice mindfulness meditation with varying frequency, sitting anything from about 5 minutes to 30 minutes, rarely longer.

Typically mindfulness meditation starts with basic breath meditation: Sit in a stable, comfortable position, focus on your breath and notice it going in and out. If thoughts appear, try to keep focus on the breath but don't force the thoughts away, just try to let them dissipate without continuing them.

The big difference for me with unstructured relaxation was that it was hard at first to focus on the breath. My mind produced all kinds of objections to sitting there and paying attention.

Sitting for 5 minutes like that caused my mind to practically rebel. Then I went through a period with dream-like states (one of the most memorable effects, which I've only had a few times, was like seeing a dream unfold around me, but while dreams always feel "fuzzy" and unclear for me this was as if I was standing in the middle of a theatre set, seeing everything clearly, yet knowing it was not real).

Then I had a period of what is something referred to as "monkey mind" - all kinds of distractions piled on. Then I went through a period where I would suddenly get an intensely strong belief that I'd forgotten to set my alarm and was going to be late. I knew I'd set my alarm, but the feeling would become unbearable until I looked at my (set) alarm. I had to solve that by triple check the alarm before I started, and telling myself it was set, and telling myself it didn't matter because I had lots of time free after it was set to go off, and then it stopped happening (and I don't triple check my alarm any more).

These distractions were not constant, and I could sit longer and longer before they'd set in. After a few weeks of daily practice they were weakened enough that I started feeling I was getting somewhere.

Once I'd gotten past those distractions, it changed nature very strongly. Now I slowly sink into more and more relaxed states depending on how long I sit. At about 20 minutes I will generally start feeling as if I am noticing the pulsing of blood in my eye lids and pressure on my eyes (I have no idea if those are real physical sensations or not - doesn't matter to me) and see patterns similar to what you might see if you squeeze your eyes firmly shut and feel a sense of blissful calm that makes it tempting to just stay like that.

If I sit longer and focus, those feelings dissipates as I get calmer and more concentrated and I can best describe it as if my mind is "emptying" and clearing of whatever feelings the sense of bliss brought, and it feels more steady and crisp. It's very hard to relate the sensations of it with words.

If I sit to the "bliss" state or past, I will feel an immense feeling of calm once I finish that will often last for hours afterwards.

I'd recommend the frequently recommended Mindfulness in Plain English (available for free online, or from Amazon etc.) or Introduction to Mindfulness (free podcasts) by Gil Fronsdal. Both are no-nonsense secular introductions and very simple, basic practice to try out and see if you like the effects.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#116

>I was just at the gym watching the 30-year-olds at the pull-up bar building muscles in three weeks. And I’m at the pull up bar and nothing’s happening While many of you are thinking that he's making excuses (he might be) or that the other guys worked long and hard to build muscle, I can relate: I've been lifting weights three times a week for the last four years. I still look average, and yes I'm eating and exercisi…

> I've been lifting weights three times a week for the last four years. I still look average, and yes I'm eating and exercising properly. People always says this. They always eat well and recover properly, but they just can't make any gains. Everyone else can, but they can't and instead of looking at the simplest explanation, they do hurdles to convince themselves they have low test and that's why they're not perfect…

I just made a post saying I didn't jump to conclusions, it was only after years of training that I even considered the possibility that something was wrong with me. Never browsed /fit/ not sure what you're trying to say... I won't try to convince you -- I'm sure there are many that like to make excuses so you think I fall under that category too.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#117
post #29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- I didn't get huge muscles or less body fat with more testosterone (huge myth that I thought would change for me) The many studies done on this subject show that testosterone makes a huge impact on muscle growth. Take this 10 week study for instance, http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101 . The placebo group working out didn't experience nearly as much muscle gain as those taking testosterone did…

> The many studies done on this subject show that testosterone makes a huge impact on muscle growth Genuine question: Why this emphasis on increasing "muscle growth"? What benefits does it bring us (men)?

Benefit to everyone, not just men, is running my back muscles occasionally at 200% percent safe capacity in general daily life, lead to punishing pain though I was still a teen at that time. Under advice and monitoring of the docs, following all the trainer recommendations, good form and trainer approved plans etc, I bulked up to the point that daily life occasionally peaked my back muscles at maybe 50% of safe capacity. You can guess the effect on my quality of life. Sometimes simply not feeling pain anymore is a gift from the gods. I suppose it was either lift, or start a life long opiate addiction.

On the other hand, I know most of the guys at the gym with me were just addictive personalities. Rather than wanting that lvl80 in WoW, or feeling the uncontrollable desire to get drunk, they wanted to bench 300. There certainly are worse grind addictions than lifting.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#118

Be very careful. Usually low T has no discernible cause but sometimes it is caused by a (treatable but potentially very serious) cancer of the pituitary called a prolactinoma. Testosterone treatment can mask the symptoms until is too late. See an endocrinologist before embarking on these "over the counter" treatments.

Yep see and endo and urologist. I had a mri of the brain to rule this out.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#119

Can anyone link to a gwern-style review of it? Unfortunately a google search for the same just yields a bunch of T-Nation style spam aimed at wannabe bodybuilders.

Gwern wrote a section about Testosterone in Nootropics article: http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics#testosterone

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#120
post #2

Read about it 15 years ago in a Belgian magazine. A Belgian doctor was claiming the same. To be quite honest I use it already for 15 years and indeed it changes you. It helps me to be in "sana in corpore sano". Let's hope the negative health impacts on long term are not to bet so my body stays sano :)

Would you be kind enough to share your experience? I ask you this as a 29 yrs old who's mortified of aging and feels guilty as hell for having a "all-day-sitting" job.

Same age... this thread is really making me feel old. Generally I still feel like I'm just getting out here and just getting started still in terms of career, life, etc. I really hope it's not all downhill from 30!

Related to the main subject, I don't think my levels have ever been low, but I've always been surprised at how quickly I lose muscle mass when I'm not working out. That might be more related to protein intake and other genetic factors though, since I've always been pretty lean.

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