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Testosterone is the drug of the future

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Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#61

Post by jcfrei »

paganel wrote: post #29
toolz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- I didn't get huge muscles or less body fat with more testosterone (huge myth that I thought would change for me) The many studies done on this subject show that testosterone makes a huge impact on muscle growth. Take this 10 week study for instance, http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101 . The placebo group working out didn't experience nearly as much muscle gain as those taking testosterone did…

> The many studies done on this subject show that testosterone makes a huge impact on muscle growth Genuine question: Why this emphasis on increasing "muscle growth"? What benefits does it bring us (men)?

Strength is significantly correlated with life expectancy. See here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2938886/ and here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2453303/

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#62

Post by gabemart »

paganel wrote: post #29
toolz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- I didn't get huge muscles or less body fat with more testosterone (huge myth that I thought would change for me) The many studies done on this subject show that testosterone makes a huge impact on muscle growth. Take this 10 week study for instance, http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101 . The placebo group working out didn't experience nearly as much muscle gain as those taking testosterone did…

> The many studies done on this subject show that testosterone makes a huge impact on muscle growth Genuine question: Why this emphasis on increasing "muscle growth"? What benefits does it bring us (men)?

"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general."

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#63

Post by vidarh »

return0 wrote: post #58
callum85 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could there be a placebo for meditation? A placebo has to replicate the experience of going through the 'real' treatment being trialled. How could you create the experience of meditation without the subject actually meditating? The claim being tested is simply that the experience of meditation is beneficial, so I don't know what form a placebo could take. It would be OK to do a trial where one group is instructed…

i think you 're supposed to compare the claimed effects on people who meditate vs people who don't (control group)

A control group that does not do anything and does not receive anything is not using a placebo.

A placebo is very specifically a substitute for whatever you want to measure the effect of.

You can have both a control group and a group using a placebo and get substantially different results for them, and that's exactly why placebos are used: People report substantial effects from sugar pills and the like when they believe there should be an effect.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#64

Post by return0 »

vidarh wrote: post #53
Simp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"start meditating" Research has not shown that meditation beats a placebo Studies about meditation are usually of poor quality. Source: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/2013/03/08/r...

Your source does not support your claim that research has not shown that meditation beats a placebo. Apart from pointing out that "meditation" is a wide ranging concept that includes a vast number of different, often contradictory, practices, and that a lot of the research is of poor quality (given the number of "research" papers coming out of TM affiliated sources alone - see blow -, that should not be a surprise),…

Conversely though, claiming the opposite is also wrong. Many people feel that meditation is good for many things, but that emotion is not science.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#65

Post by return0 »

vidarh wrote: post #59
return0 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it doesn't help more than a placebo, then it doesn't help at all.

A placebo often helps substantially. That is why we tend to test with a placebo rather than nothing at all, in order to measure the effect of what we want to test rather than the ability of our mind to influence our body. And the effect is not merely psychological. Often placebo produces measurable responses.

Still though, the idea behind placebos is that they 're the most convenient thing to do compared to the alternative. It doesn't justify the suggestion to "meditate to increase T" more than "take a sugar pill to increase T"

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#67

Post by return0 »

davak wrote: post #55

MD here. Just remember that women live longer than men. Although it'll never be proven that hormones are part of that provess, I think it's a good assumption. Many males as they get older become more lovable and more pleasent to be around because of natural hormone declines. There are a ton of health issues such as balding, coronary artery disease, prostate cancer, obstructive sleep apnea that are related to testoste…

Indeed there is evidence for it. For some people though, i guess longevity is not the best indicator of the good life.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-19699266

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#68

Post by mironathetin »

davak wrote: post #55

MD here. Just remember that women live longer than men. Although it'll never be proven that hormones are part of that provess, I think it's a good assumption. Many males as they get older become more lovable and more pleasent to be around because of natural hormone declines. There are a ton of health issues such as balding, coronary artery disease, prostate cancer, obstructive sleep apnea that are related to testoste…

I am happy that an expert without a bias reports about this. What you noted down came back into my mind immediately. These were the reported risks for professional athletes (back in the days when I decided to study physics instead of taking more of this junk and go pro).

There are also natural ways to keep your own T level high, like healthy food, enough sleep, everything that increases your muscle mass (weightlifting), not too much stress, staying lean, and of course the most enjoyable thing you can do with your partner ;o). All this desn't cost a 1000$ a month, its free and its good for you too. No enhanced risk for cancer, no bad wakeup after 20 years of taking it.

Re: Testosterone is the drug of the future

#69

Post by return0 »

vidarh wrote: post #63
return0 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think you 're supposed to compare the claimed effects on people who meditate vs people who don't (control group)

A control group that does not do anything and does not receive anything is not using a placebo. A placebo is very specifically a substitute for whatever you want to measure the effect of. You can have both a control group and a group using a placebo and get substantially different results for them, and that's exactly why placebos are used: People report substantial effects from sugar pills and the like when they beli…

well yeah , you would then have to have a "sugar pill" group. I wonder whether these studies include an third" no intervention" group.
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