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Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

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Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#211

Post by authatheist »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #136
jpatokal wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the agency in question can sufficiently co-opt/coerce the government, they don't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover

Certainly. It is up to the people that allow the government to persist to surveil the activities of that government to ensure that it is operating within the bounds they have permitted.

Oh those silly North Koreans. When will they decide to stop permitting their own torture?

Their benevolent overlords have been torturing them in droves for half a fucking century, but apparently they like it that way, because otherwise they wouldn't PERMIT it, right?

Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#212

Post by XorNot »

deepGem wrote: post #199

Regarding mapping - one overlooked aspect is the fine grain detail required for driverless cars. For example - current precision is for a road, required precision for driverless cars is for a lane. Not sure how Google can leverage Uber to solve this.

Driverless cars use computer-vision to find lanes. They also can read street signs in some implementations. The required precision is not really a problem you'd want to try and solve with mapping alone.

Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#213

Post by Alupis »

olefoo wrote: post #180
ericcumbee wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you have to get enough of those self driving cars for it to be effective. If uber is buying the cars then they cease to be a driver/car to passenger matching service and become a full on cab company, complete with the liability and maintenance costs that go with owning cars.

And Uber may still wind up on the losing end of a lawsuit about pushing drivers to take on vehicles based on false pretenses ( Uber telling the drivers that there would be enough work to justify them financing a vehicle for Uber usage). Uber's efforts to shed itself of all liability and risk in terms of employees and assets is legendary; but they could still find themselves going up against the IRS on the question of…

> Uber telling the drivers that there would be enough work to justify them financing a vehicle for Uber usage

It seems incredibly unwise to finance a $20,000 USD vehicle hedging on some third party (of which you have zero control over) to provide enough for you to pay it through.

Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#214

Post by disillusioned »

roskilli wrote: post #210
dojomouse wrote: post #197

So much criticism of Google! My question: Why on earth would Google want to cede any significant chunk of the personal transport value stream to Uber - or acquire them at a $40Bil+ valuation - when the main (only?) semi-uniquely valuable thing Uber have (a large network of drivers) is worth approximately zero dollars in a self-driving vehicle scenario. Uber are valuable and effective in a human-driven vehicle model b…

Surely the riders install base is quite valuable if both were to have as good tech and self driving cars

Yeah, sort of, but Google has the unique positioning of a much larger install base by virtue of Google Maps. If they integrated ride hailing and routing (essentially, their Uber competitor) directly into Maps, then Uber's rider base doesn't matter, though their head-start onboarding drivers would help for awhile.

Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#215

Post by Alupis »

jfoutz wrote: post #141
threeseed wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autonomous cars are here: https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressrele... And you can find examples from almost every car company. They all have projects going back decades looking at autonomous technologies. Some you see today e.g. parallel park assist, crash avoidance, lane/stop sign detection etc.

I understand what you're saying, and i agree there are a ton in testing. But it's not like i can go to the volvo website and check the box for the "no steering wheel" option at any price. Furthermore if i'm say, WalMart, I can't call up any truck manufacturers and get a self driving option for my next fleet purchases. That's in spite of having a huge infrastructure for supporting and maintaining my trucks. Today, unl…

There's also a lot of unknowns and serious challenges and difficult problems to solve before driver-less vehicles can become "mainstream".

Majority (all?) of the road testing has been on fairly controlled roads with "normal" circumstances, ie. not a blizzard with iced roads, hydroplaning, debris falling in front of the vehicle at speed, etc.

Longevity of the vehicle - it's doubtful a driverless vehicle purchased today will still be on the road (and safe!) 10-15 years from now (there's an awful lot of computing and sensors in place, but would a computer that old still perform safely -- ie. would you use your computer from 15 years ago as your daily-use work machine? no - so why trust your life to it?), whereas majority of vehicles on the road today are 10-15+ years old. Sensors are expensive and prone to natural wear, etc.

What about sensors frizzing out and providing false-readings? Similar circumstances have destroyed $100 million spacecraft missions, let alone some $20K vehicle that's several years old and neglected by the owner. Even military-grade electronics and sensor arrays are not "fool proof" and totally "failsafe" -- and you know the quality, robustness, redundantness, etc.. of the electronics going into self-driving vehicles are not on par.

The moment the first human casualty occurs do to some software/hardware failure, there will be serious ramifications for the self-driving world.

Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#216

Post by mathattack »

dojomouse wrote: post #197

So much criticism of Google! My question: Why on earth would Google want to cede any significant chunk of the personal transport value stream to Uber - or acquire them at a $40Bil+ valuation - when the main (only?) semi-uniquely valuable thing Uber have (a large network of drivers) is worth approximately zero dollars in a self-driving vehicle scenario. Uber are valuable and effective in a human-driven vehicle model b…

The value is only partially in the driver base. Drivers are tangible. But the true value is intangible.

There is enormous brand value in thinking "I'll get an Uber" as a synonym for "I'll get a taxi, but right what I need it, and it probably will smell better." There is value of having that app on the phone, with credit card # already in place.

But perhaps more important is that Uber is building a graph of everyone who wants to go somewhere at any point in time. (And where they all wanted to go in the past) This is what's worth $40 billion. If two companies have automatic cars, the one who knows where they want to go wins.

Perhaps Google wanted to buy at $2 billion or $5, but not at $40.

Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#217

Post by trhway »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #138
softdev12 wrote: post #85

I'm glad that the article highlighted how valuable the mapping information is that Google collects. While Uber probably could still run its current operations without Google map data, there is a much smaller probability that they would be able to run a self-driving car service without a highly accurate mapping product. And to build a mapping product is really difficult and expensive. I was surprised when Google start…

> So, Uber really needs to start thinking about the mapping aspect. Perhaps they can incent their current drivers to start reporting back all the street info as they pick up their passengers. Of course, this would bring up problems if the drivers eventually realize that this data could be used to replace them. It would be interesting to see uber cars with Google StreetView style cameras on their hoods. Most likely th…

Self-driving cars will solve the issue of collecting street data. Though of course one need some data for the cars to start with.

Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#219

Post by dkarapetyan »

mathattack wrote: post #216
dojomouse wrote: post #197

So much criticism of Google! My question: Why on earth would Google want to cede any significant chunk of the personal transport value stream to Uber - or acquire them at a $40Bil+ valuation - when the main (only?) semi-uniquely valuable thing Uber have (a large network of drivers) is worth approximately zero dollars in a self-driving vehicle scenario. Uber are valuable and effective in a human-driven vehicle model b…

The value is only partially in the driver base. Drivers are tangible. But the true value is intangible. There is enormous brand value in thinking "I'll get an Uber" as a synonym for "I'll get a taxi, but right what I need it, and it probably will smell better." There is value of having that app on the phone, with credit card # already in place. But perhaps more important is that Uber is building a graph of everyone w…

How many data points do you think you need to make predictions about where people want to go? Uber's data isn't as hard to get as you think. The article mentions also that Uber is already using Google maps to do routing so Google already has all the data it needs.

Re: Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor

#220

Post by visakanv »

mathattack wrote: post #216
dojomouse wrote: post #197

So much criticism of Google! My question: Why on earth would Google want to cede any significant chunk of the personal transport value stream to Uber - or acquire them at a $40Bil+ valuation - when the main (only?) semi-uniquely valuable thing Uber have (a large network of drivers) is worth approximately zero dollars in a self-driving vehicle scenario. Uber are valuable and effective in a human-driven vehicle model b…

The value is only partially in the driver base. Drivers are tangible. But the true value is intangible. There is enormous brand value in thinking "I'll get an Uber" as a synonym for "I'll get a taxi, but right what I need it, and it probably will smell better." There is value of having that app on the phone, with credit card # already in place. But perhaps more important is that Uber is building a graph of everyone w…

> There is enormous brand value in thinking "I'll get an Uber" as a synonym for "I'll get a taxi, but right what I need it, and it probably will smell better." There is value of having that app on the phone, with credit card # already in place.

Hrm. I see where you're coming from, but I can also imagine opening up Google Maps, clicking directions to go somewhere, and then when it says "press to be picked up by your driverless car", I'd just press that. If it were cheaper than Uber, I wouldn't bother subsequently opening up Uber to look for something.

Caveat: I'm a person who currently uses buses and trains because I can't afford Uber. I might not be representative, but I don't care about Uber. I'd be happy to jump ship, and I'm very used to using Google to search for things.

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