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Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

dev.windows.com

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Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#361

Post by dkuntz2 »

slantyyz wrote: post #213
ap0 wrote: post #203

There's nothing wrong with learning to first code on Windows. If it is easy for a kid to get going and start making stuff, they have a much better chance of sticking with it long enough to actually be interested in it as a hobby or career. My first programming experience was VB6 on Windows 98. I went from there to C in Visual C++. Fast forward to today and I write Java on OSX that is deployed to Linux machines. Most…

>> CS fundamentals can be taught on any system This. I don't know why a lot of people just assume that having Windows means you'll learn using Microsoft's development tools. Nothing's preventing you from choosing Apache over IIS, or Postgresql/MySQL over SQL Server Express. Most major web app development platforms run on Windows, and there are plenty of good, free text editors too.

Because professors are teaching those tools, which means students are more comfortable with them / know what they are.

This isn't CS fundamentals, but, at least for a good portion of CS 1 classes taught at my school, and all of the CS 2 and data structures, Visual Studio is what people are taught, with the OS X users typically using XCode.

I don't know if it's better to start with IDEs or just basic text editors and compilers, but I know a lot of CS majors are going to be coming out of my school without knowing how to compile and run almost any program without clicking on the green run button in their IDE.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#362

Post by jongalloway2 »

toni wrote: post #288
dagw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you install gcc, golang, nodejs, python, ruby, ghc, lua (...) on windows with a single command Yes! Just install chocolaty and type cinst git cinst mingw cinst vim (and so on) Prior to Windows 10 it is a third party tool and not officially supported by windows. However starting with Windows 10 windows will ship with a version of this command called OneGet and it will be be officially part of windows.

I don't think you can call chocolaty a package manager as it does not (and, by the nature of Windows, can not) offer dependency resolutions in the way apt works. It might be better to call it a package downloader or a package installer.

Can you explain what you mean here? Chocolatey is built on top of the NuGet package manager, which includes package level dependencies.

A simple example is this ConEmuConfig package, which will install ConEmu if it's not already installed due to the dependency chain: https://chocolatey.org/packages/EthanBrown.ConEmuConfig

Many Chocolatey packages I use have dependency chains, and I know some developers that build metapackages so installing one Chocolatey package installs and configures all the software on a new dev box or server.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#363

Post by chernevik »

ntakasaki wrote: post #251
chernevik wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I was setting up Crouton on my 11 year old daughter's Chromebook. She wants to learn to program, she says, so I said, great, let's get you a real programming environment. She was nervous about her computer and all the stuff flying by on the screen, so we talked about what her computer is -- a CPU, memory, storage -- it's all bits, nothing happening here can hurt it. We then got Python up and drew a turn wit…

>Yesterday I was setting up Crouton on my 11 year old daughter's Chromebook Yet you decided to buy her a Chromebook, which is the most locked down laptop out there with heavy DRM with everything locked to Google's services and only Google code being allowed to run natively. Even Windows is much more open in comparison and doesn't wipe the hard disk when you try to install an alternate OS. Nor do you have to "root" it…

It costs $250, we can walk away the moment it becomes limiting. It's a lot harder to walk away from hours spent learning to do something some particular way.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#364

Post by 4ydx »

The raspberry pi is supposed to be an educational tool. You cannot learn anything about the inner workings of an operating system when it is closed source. There isn't much of an argument to be made really for Microsoft on Raspberry Pi. Programming in c# can be done on Linux these days. Why one would want to use Microsoft is really beyond me.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#365

Post by ps4fanboy »

4ydx wrote: post #364

The raspberry pi is supposed to be an educational tool. You cannot learn anything about the inner workings of an operating system when it is closed source. There isn't much of an argument to be made really for Microsoft on Raspberry Pi. Programming in c# can be done on Linux these days. Why one would want to use Microsoft is really beyond me.

Operating system education isnt the only objective, Windows is a robust platform to learn programming and any number of other uses.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#366

Post by malkia »

ntakasaki wrote: post #251
chernevik wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I was setting up Crouton on my 11 year old daughter's Chromebook. She wants to learn to program, she says, so I said, great, let's get you a real programming environment. She was nervous about her computer and all the stuff flying by on the screen, so we talked about what her computer is -- a CPU, memory, storage -- it's all bits, nothing happening here can hurt it. We then got Python up and drew a turn wit…

>Yesterday I was setting up Crouton on my 11 year old daughter's Chromebook Yet you decided to buy her a Chromebook, which is the most locked down laptop out there with heavy DRM with everything locked to Google's services and only Google code being allowed to run natively. Even Windows is much more open in comparison and doesn't wipe the hard disk when you try to install an alternate OS. Nor do you have to "root" it…

My son enjoys my croutonized chromebook, he gets to play minecraft on it (he has it also on his iPad, and on my PS3). But along with that the older version of Scratch, a very cool open sourced game called froogle.

I also told him that he has to type some magic incantations to get them installed: "sudo apt-get install froogle" and he kind of loves it (and then forgets it right away... or do I know)...

But really for a $179 (that's how I got it) device I don't mind. He actually "blew" it once, by pressing SPACE at the booting screen and reseting the whole device (unlocked chromebooks are like that, there is a way to disable that, but haven't done it yet). I told him that minecraft is now gone because of that, but we can install it again, though his maps are not saved. He's not doing it anymore, and surely he'll be more careful than me in the future (he opened the chromebook without asking me)

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#367

Post by slantyyz »

yellowapple wrote: post #345
slantyyz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Except the teacher on Windows by design cannot teach a huge chunk of the stack that makes a computer a computer. Is this really necessary for most kids? My view might be skewed because I grew up in the 80s, but everything I learned back then were things like Basic, COBOL, Fortran and Pascal. One of my high school classes did some assembly language on the Apple II, but I'm not sure most of the people in my class wa…

> but everything I learned back then were things like Basic, COBOL, Fortran and Pascal. Think about what you had back then, though. At best, you had Mac OS (which was as abstracted away from actual computer internals as Windows is today). All the other options - whether it was Commodores or Ataris or DOS-based IBM-compatibles - involved working very close to the hardware. You were manually dealing with interrupts and…

>> Think about what you had back then, though. At best, you had Mac OS

The best my high schools had were the Apple II family and PDP mini computers -- my first high school course in BASIC (I already knew Basic from my home computers) -- we were marking up Hollerith cards with Sharpies. You don't know painful debugging until you have to manually scour a deck of optical cards looking for an errant black mark.

We did not deal with interrupts, memory access or low level components. What we learned was more about logic -- not much different than what I do today.

The closest I ever got to memory access in BASIC were the occasional peeks and pokes, and even then, you didn't need them to write a useful program. Being able to build something even as rudimentary as a CMS today on (insert language of choice here) is more broadly useful than anything I came out of high school with.

Also, remember that nothing was really cross platform back then. Most languages were procedural, and free databases (relational or not) -- forget about it. I was on Mac at the tail end of high school, and if you wanted a tool like Lightspeed C or Lightspeed Pascal - those were way out of the budget of a high school student.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#368

Post by pjmlp »

mwcampbell wrote: post #332
benn_88 wrote: post #79

Note: Windows 10 on Pi 2 will be an IoT platform, not a desktop OS. You'll develop your app in Visual Studio on a Windows PC and deploy it to the Pi. Raspbian will continue to be the main supported OS. - Ben from Raspberry Pi

I find it strange that Microsoft is trying to pitch Windows as an OS for Internet of Things projects running on ARM processors. Microsoft's primary strategic asset, the Win32 API (and specifically the large number of x86 Windows apps), is useless for this use case. And it seems to me that Windows would be quite heavyweight compared to a stripped-down Linux-based system. I guess they're desperate.

The real asset for IoT is .NET. There are already some manufacturers using Micro .NET for such purposes.

Many IoT vendors are shipping JVMs on their devices.

So this seems natural to bring .NET to the Pi.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#369

Post by toni »

watty wrote: post #150
benn_88 wrote: post #79

Note: Windows 10 on Pi 2 will be an IoT platform, not a desktop OS. You'll develop your app in Visual Studio on a Windows PC and deploy it to the Pi. Raspbian will continue to be the main supported OS. - Ben from Raspberry Pi

Can you clarify the key differences? What happens if you hook up a monitor, just DOS command line or does it have a desktop UI? Can you remote desktop? That's seriously underwhelming...

This is not the desktop version of Windows 10 but "Windows 10 IoT". It has no GUI whatsoever. People are planning to buy this, thinking they will be able to run some sort of desktop Windows. They're in for a huge disappointed.
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