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Join the U.S. Digital Service

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Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#61

Post by arjie »

ipsin wrote: post #40

Two things I wonder about: 1) Is an outfit like the U.S. Digital Service considering people who don't have undergraduate degrees, but have a consistent track record or are a part of established teams? 2) Is the salary roughly comparable with what's available in the private sector? I understand that the government might pay less in return for some of the perks of government work, but how close are they coming these da…

The last time this showed up, the comments on HN[1] said that you're _capped_ at $155k and have poor pension and benefits.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8165082

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#62

Post by iamartnez »

alexose wrote: post #46
inmygarage wrote: post #8

I saw Mikey Dickerson (in the video) speak to a group of ~200 people last summer about the work that he and his team did on healthcare.gov. He was at Google for nearly 8 years and left to run the recovery team for healthcare.gov. Their team is the real deal -- they saved the site in just a few months and now over 6 million people have signed up. Read the Time Magazine story for the full account. He does not seem like…

Any chance the talk was recorded? I'd love to hear what happened during those few months...

Here's a related talk, good stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLQyj-kBRdo

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#63

Post by nl »

benmathes wrote: post #49
wpietri wrote: post #6

I have met some of the 18F folks here in San Francisco, and I have gradually become convinced that there is a lot of substance to this effort. People, apparently including people at the highest levels, recognize that information technology has made enormous leaps in the private sector, and they are serious about helping government catch up. One of the most interesting bits to me was something said by Todd Park, a for…

It should come as no surprise that Mr. Park is on board; He built two public healthcare IT companies (ATHN, CSLT). He can definitely recruit good tech talent. The question is: Can he convince others in government that, as another post on the HN front page says right now, we should replace middle management with APIs?

Given that article was completely unpersuasive to me (as a fairly long-term HN reader) I seriously doubt it[1].

But then I don't think that should be a goal. (Good) middle management is precisely what Washington needs more of.

[1] The author would be well advised reading Peopleware, and understanding that middle management is often (usually?) an exception handling layer that handles the boundary between systems.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#64

Post by Frondo »

jinushaun wrote: post #2

I'd imagine that this is a hard sell given the govts track record. They want to recruit us, but they still don't get it. Why would we want to work for the bad guys? Why would we want to be second class citizens to clueless politicians that dictate directives from above instead of working in an industry that respects us and views us as leaders?

The government isn't "the bad guys". They are, however, a large, bureaucratic organization, with all the benefits and drawbacks that entails.

If you've worked for a large, bureaucratic private-sector organization (like Intel), then you'll have a pretty good sense of what you're in for.

Remember: every committee, every rule, every baffling thing that seems to make no sense is there for a reason (even a picayune, trivial, bad reason)--that's life in an organization that's had 10,000 hands in the cookie dough before you came along.

The difference is that public-sector work is something that conceivably we all have a stake in and can benefit from, while the beneficiaries of private sector work at any given company are distinctly more narrow in scope.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#65

Post by catherinedevlin »

jinushaun wrote: post #2

I'd imagine that this is a hard sell given the govts track record. They want to recruit us, but they still don't get it. Why would we want to work for the bad guys? Why would we want to be second class citizens to clueless politicians that dictate directives from above instead of working in an industry that respects us and views us as leaders?

I understand your skepticism - I left Federal contracting years ago in disgust at the way things have been working, or not working.

But 18F convinced me that they have the key to change that - completely with regard to their own work, and then with a wider ripple effect. That's something I couldn't pass up; I turned down a dream job in the private sector for 18F. Six months later, I'm more convinced and excited than ever.

It's important that 18F is a brand-new organization with great autonomy. This is not an effort to make an existing Federal agency "get" open/agile. That would be noble but very difficult. Rather, 18F is built from the ground up entirely of people with real devotion to and real experience in the principles. That especially includes the people at the top (to the extent we even have a top, it's really quite flat in here). And 18F overall has the leverage to do our work our way, because many other groups within the government believe that we can and will deliver (and are delivering) effectively... there's more work lined up for us than we can possibly fulfill (even if you all DO join us). We can say "no" when we're asked to work with conditions that would change us into what we're trying to fix.

All that said, we are a bunch of idealists, too. Has our optimism run away with us? Well, we'll certainly deliver excellent product. Time will tell how far the ripple effect will go.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#66

Post by nl »

gyardley wrote: post #27

Let's say it's January 2017 and President Bush or Rubio or Paul or Walker is being inaugurated. Does the 'U.S. Digital Service' actually keep getting funded? If it does, do the staff actually want to stay? Will any of them be willing to work on government objectives that might not be in line with their personal politics? I'll believe this is actually what it claims it is when I see it and its staff persist through a…

It's possible to view everything through a partisan lens of course, but most of the work likely to be done by this agency is the kinds of things that most people would support: getting better, quicker or easier access to government information.

Edit: Here's a good example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8988897

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#67

Post by toomuchtodo »

vxNsr wrote: post #19
tdaltonc wrote: post #14

It would be really great to fix the IRS's digital presence. Make TurboTax obsolete. I hate TurboTax.

Yeah, maybe find a way to make sure that pesky, embarrassing emails don't suddenly get deleted/disappear.

Those emails were recovered (http://www.wsj.com/articles/lost-irs-emails-found-1417122396). Make of that what you will.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#68

Post by toomuchtodo »

nether wrote: post #51
tdaltonc wrote: post #31

The US digital Service should also make and maintain a framework that state and local governments can implement. Paying a parking ticket in Los Angeles is a trip to the 90's.

Try applying for a hiking permit. Some CA ranger stations take only snail mail or, wait for it, fax.

So build a website and send the permits in using a service like Phaxio.com (Fax API). Show your local rep, get it funded.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#69

Post by dsl »

_cudgel wrote: post #47

Does joining the US Digital Service require a clearance, and if so does occasional marijuana consumption automatically disqualify you?

It shouldn't require a clearance unless you end up on a national security or defense project.

A valid prescription (the little white pads with a doctors signature, not a pot club membership card) for medical marijuana protects you from criminal prosecution, but not from employer drug testing programs. Executive Order 12564, signed in 1986, explicitly makes the federal government a zero tolerance drug free workplace.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#70

Post by BrandonY »

ipsin wrote: post #40

Two things I wonder about: 1) Is an outfit like the U.S. Digital Service considering people who don't have undergraduate degrees, but have a consistent track record or are a part of established teams? 2) Is the salary roughly comparable with what's available in the private sector? I understand that the government might pay less in return for some of the perks of government work, but how close are they coming these da…

I have no expertise here, but here's my understanding:

1) Yes, especially if you've worked for some big name, non-government tech companies.

2) Absolutely not. The salary is MISERABLE compared to what you could get in the private sector. That's the real problem.

The government desperately needs world class software engineers, but the private sector can effectively buy them all away. Who would try and fix the busted old immigration system when Facebook or Google will pay you literally four times more money to write way more fun stuff with modern technology, world class perks, and job security that doesn't depend on the next election cycle.

Joining these guys is a sacrifice. It's a service to the country. It's work that literally changes and even saves lives, but it's miserable, boring work, with little or no personal reward.

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