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F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

nytimes.com

201–210 of 452 posts

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#201

To me, net neutrality is pretty much a red herring. I have had good and bad internet service in my life. The least reliable was at my somewhat rural childhood home from TWC. The best is my current connection from that most reviled of companies, Comcast. I have had no service interruptions, and I get a reliable 50Mbps at all times of day (I check regularly with speed tests and checking Torrent activity). The reason my…

Comcast is great on the surface and in the short term; good bandwidth, few outages.

The knife-twist comes when they decide to impose data limits with essentially punitive caps designed to quash competition, or dramatically "monetize" your accustomed use of their product.

I don't think that making them a utility is a great answer either; this opens the door to taxes that are disconnected from use and politicizing connections based on content. I think the long-term resolve to keep bandwidth competitive will be lost when governments see it as a cash cow (of course you don't mind another penny per gigabyte, because it pays for roads/schools/whatever).

A structure that encourages (or even requires) competition would be best, I think. Maybe neutrally administrate that last mile and share it between all parties (sorry, TWC and Comcast, you had your chance, now we've nationalized your build-out because you couldn't play fair).

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#202

To me, net neutrality is pretty much a red herring. I have had good and bad internet service in my life. The least reliable was at my somewhat rural childhood home from TWC. The best is my current connection from that most reviled of companies, Comcast. I have had no service interruptions, and I get a reliable 50Mbps at all times of day (I check regularly with speed tests and checking Torrent activity). The reason my…

Yes, of course if most American were as lucky as you, net neutrality wouldn't be an issue. But the reality is that most of us are under a monopoly.[1] And it will take years and billions of dollars in infrastructure to enable the kind of competition that you are already enjoying.

After suffering under Comcast's Netflix throttling last year, I don't want to hear utopian talk about encouraging competition. I want laws that fix the problem today by making those damn QoS firewall rules illegal. Of course I also want regulations and incentives to encourage broadband competition, but in the mean time net neutrality is a important stop gap.

[1] http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2014/02/17/monopolizin...

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#203
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple fact is, getting approval to put your network somewhere is not only really expensive, but already heavily regulated Very true. How does adding more regulation make things better? Are you telling me that the new FCC ruling will make all those existing regulatory problems go away? If so, that might help. But if we agree the problem is regulation, I would hope we agree the solution can't be more regulation.

> Very true. How does adding more regulation make things better? Are you telling me that these new FCC ruling will make all those existing regulatory problems go away? It could. For example, the FCC could force companies to lease their last-mile infrastructure out to competitors, which could add meaningful competition to the ISP space.

The devil will be in the details. How much is the price of the lease? Who determines that price? What then would be the motivation for upgrading the last mile infrastructure for the owners of it?

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#204

The major critique quoted here comes from David Farber of Carnegie-Mellon, who worries that classifying Internet access under Title II will allow it to be taxed. If that's the worst thing you can think of, we're in good shape.

Good, personal income and corporate taxes have never been lower and we're long overdue for a tax hike.

[deleted]

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#205

That will be a sad day. Internet technology still has a lot of room to improve before the government steps in and kills all market forces that encourage those improvements. If you don't like your current service levels now, just wait until the government gets involved.

Yes, that damn government killing innovation. After all, AT&T, Comcast, and Verizon invented the internet all on their own, why should the government get a say in how their networks are run? Can you imagine how horrible the internet would be if the government had been involved from the start?

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#206

The major critique quoted here comes from David Farber of Carnegie-Mellon, who worries that classifying Internet access under Title II will allow it to be taxed. If that's the worst thing you can think of, we're in good shape.

Good, personal income and corporate taxes have never been lower and we're long overdue for a tax hike.

You know you can voluntarily send more money, right?

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm

I'm sure it's already on your to-do list, of course.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#207

The major critique quoted here comes from David Farber of Carnegie-Mellon, who worries that classifying Internet access under Title II will allow it to be taxed. If that's the worst thing you can think of, we're in good shape.

That isn't the worst by a long shot. I'm all for net neutrality, but Title II classification for ISPs really worries me.

I was co-founder of a VOIP startup in 2003, and a significant percentage of our time and resources was spent dealing with how the service was going to be classified for purposes of the Telecom Act. A bunch of the states were wanting to regulate VOIP providers as telephone companies, the FCC was on the fence (the pulver / fwd decision wasn't out yet[1]). Almost everyone was advocating for VOIP to be classified as a interstate information service so that we could avoid the onerous outdated state-by-state telephone company regulations. We got what we wanted (VOIP classified as a information service), but then a few years later we ran into the problem of ISPs blocking/interfering/throttling VOIP connections. The FCC in its first net neutrality foray went after some of the companies (See e.g. Madison River[2]) for blocking VOIP. However, the interesting thing was they could only go after Madison River under their Title II authority because Madison River happened to be a DSL provider and subject to Title II authority. When they went after Comcast for Bitorrent blocking of course they lost[3].

If we had been subject to Title II and regulation as a telecommunications service almost all of the states had regulations they would have applied to us included such gems as: * tariff filing * price caps or approvals * required interconnection with legacy carriers * requirements to use legacy telecom protocols * surcharges for stuff like E911, relay service, universal service, etc. * obtain state approval before offering new services or products or discontinuing services or products * obtain state approval before opening a new facility * provide notice to the FCC and the state of network changes * intercarrier compensation * mandatory build outs (to offer service you have to offer service through all of area X) * required the use of specific accounting methods and cost assignment and reporting rules that make the tax code look simple and friendly * countless other stuff down to things like how much and what kind of UPS capacity we would have. Do we really want to open the door for every ISP to have to get approval from some government agency before it can interconnect to another network, put in a switch or open a new POP? They might not do it now, but once the regulatory framework is in place, it always seems agencies are willing to enact a new regulation a lot quicker than they are willing to get rid of one.

As an aside one of the things the ISPs were publicly saying around that time was that they didn't have the technology to block or degrade VOIP even if they wanted to. Of course now this sounds absurd, but some policymakers were buying it. We actually traveled to DC and ended up demoing for several of the FCC commissioners how easy this would be to do (along with how hard it would be to detect) with a couple of lines of code. On one of these trips we ended up in an elevator with Kevin Martin [4] who was chairman at the time. He said his opinion was it was a mistake for the VOIP providers to race to get classified as an information provider to avoid the state regulation, taxes, etc., because it was going to end up permitting the ISPs to block/degrade the service. I don't know if I agree with him, but I see his point now. In the end VOIP providers ended up subject to a lot of the regulations anyway (as "interconnected VOIP providers"), but without the protections of Title II[5].

I think something does need to be done about net neutrality but I think the best solution is to encourage competition and more/smaller ISPs instead of giving the FCC carte blanche to regulate the Internet as a utility. Dane Jasper of sonic.net has laid it all out much better than I could[6]. It is essentially giving up and saying we are going to live with Internet access being run by monopolies like the power company. It puts us back to the Bell System in 1982, and that makes me sad.

[1] https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-04-27A1.pd...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_the_United_St... and https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-05-543A2.pd...

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_the_United_St...

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Martin_(FCC)

[5] http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/voice-over-internet-protocol...

[6] https://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2014/11/12/neutrality-is-just-a-s...

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#208
post #187

Does anyone know if this would impact the issues we saw between Netflix, Level3 and Verizon? My understanding of the original issues with Netflix and Verizon was that the interconnect between Netflix's peering company (Level 3) and Verizon wasn't big enough to handle the bandwidth that Netflix was attempting to pump out. In this case, Verizon was just refusing to upgrade that path and wanted to force Netflix to conne…

The section of Title 2 that requires common carriers to publish their prices might extend to peering agreements. If so, it would totally shake up the current system of secret dealings and probably make it a lot harder for Verizon to pretend to be the victim.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#209
post #187

Does anyone know if this would impact the issues we saw between Netflix, Level3 and Verizon? My understanding of the original issues with Netflix and Verizon was that the interconnect between Netflix's peering company (Level 3) and Verizon wasn't big enough to handle the bandwidth that Netflix was attempting to pump out. In this case, Verizon was just refusing to upgrade that path and wanted to force Netflix to conne…

I wish I had a link to review this but I don't think that's the case. As I recall, Netflix published data showing that there wasn't actually a bandwidth problem and they offered to upgrade the equipment. They've ended up paying Verizon which is what verizon was really after.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#210

One part of me hates this because the idea of our government dipping their hands into what has become the major source of information, entertainment, conducting business, etc. is quite scary. We all know their tendency to fuck things up because of politics, money, stupidity, or a combination of any and all of these. On the other hand, I look at my other utilities and realize I have absolutely no complaints. Yeah, the…

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm honestly curious: why is pay-for-use bad for internet access but okay for water, electricity, and phone?
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