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F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

nytimes.com

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Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#111

Post by nickff »

warfangle wrote: post #89
nickff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a lack of service by an internet provider be comparable to a utility pumping sewage? Shouldn't you be looking at water restrictions which the utilities blame on drought? This is the most similar type of event to the Comcast outage which you are describing. Both could have been prevented through better planning, capital expenditures, and forethought. If this is the comparison, both Comcast and many water pro…

How about an internet provider injecting tracking scripts and advertisements into HTTP responses; an internet provider failing to respond correctly to DNS requests (so they can provide their own search engine on mistyped domains)? Both of these things have been done by ISPs - and recently. I'd consider that comparable to a utility pumping sewage.

I'd consider that equivalent to a utility not chlorinating the supply, or having sediment issues; both are unexpected and undesired behaviors which can be corrected.

I do not understand the desire to compare problematic internet service to sewage-pumping through the potable water supply. Are you desperate for superlatives which will make the internet service providers look bad?

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#112

Post by ancap »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #32

As a libertarian who knows tech, I'm on the government's side here, although I'm grimacing while I'm supporting them. It's simply the lesser of two evils. One thing to help clarify the debate if you're talking to somebody who opposes this move: do not confuse the issue of how the government should be treating utilities in general with whether or not the internet is a utility. We can have a grand old time debating the…

>As a libertarian who knows tech, I'm on the government's side here

That's an oxymoron.

The core reason internet service sucks for the vast majority of Americans is because state and local governments grant monopoly status to the ISP cartels. This move by the FCC does nothing to remedy that and consequently will not solve the problem. If they require higher "standard" of internet without doing away with the monopolies, for the vast majority of people this will only mean a higher bill.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#113

Post by skuhn »

skywhopper wrote: post #14

The major critique quoted here comes from David Farber of Carnegie-Mellon, who worries that classifying Internet access under Title II will allow it to be taxed. If that's the worst thing you can think of, we're in good shape.

Internet access is already subject to tax, barring this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tax_Freedom_Act

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#114

Post by chronomex »

cheald wrote: post #91
amputect wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My tap water is clean and delicious and I have never, ever had a problem with it. I have never experienced an unscheduled service interruption with my water, and scheduled service interruptions are very rare and advertised well in advance. My electricity is stable and reliable, and any power outages I've experienced have been brief, and exclusively due to exceptional weather events. I'm also a Comcast customer, and I…

Comparing Title II utilities to water and electricity is silly. How happy are you with your landline telephone and cable TV services? You know, the ones that everyone hates and is replacing with internet-carried alternatives?

My landline telephone is very satisfactory. I've never encountered any service disruptions with it. In fact, I can't think of a single time in my entire life where I've picked up the phone and not had a usable dialtone on the other end, or where I've placed a call (to another landline) and received a bad connection.

The single time I had a problem with how it was billed, I called the state regulator who worked with my telco to sort out how taxes were being calculated. It turned out that they were billing me correctly, but couldn't explain it over the phone.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#115

Post by lightbritefight »

djrogers wrote: post #17
CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #6

What a coincidence; I just posted this to my Facebook feed yesterday: Dealing with ISPs (and mobile providers, for that matter) is a never-ending hell of time-sucking and abysmal customer service. Communications as a business has some unfortunate features that drive its pathologies. The overhead of the infrastructure is very high and the marginal cost for adding a customer is relatively low. When there's more than on…

Wait a second, every single negative you've described here can also be applied to other utilities who have been regulated under title II for as long as it's existed. They've yet to find a way to 'regulate' human decency and good customer service...

Adding viable competitors is how.

Title 2 will make it so other companies have a chance to exist on the government sponsored lines. Once Comcast sees its lifeblood spilling into the streets, Im betting their CS will be as sweet as pecan pie.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#116

Post by dublinben »

dkhenry wrote: post #94

I understand the desire to regulate the internet as a utility, but are they going to actually regulate it like a utility or are they going to call it a common carrier and then just make up a few BS rules that need to be followed. I have a sinking feeling that all this will result in is a situation where monopolies are given out to the existing players and no one is forced to do anything to upgrade the existing servic…

>monopolies are given out to the existing players

Why would you think this?

>a crappy connection forever

Or this? Just last week, the FCC raised its definition of broadband, against the complaints of incumbent ISPs.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#117

Post by na85 »

nickff wrote: post #74
amputect wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My tap water is clean and delicious and I have never, ever had a problem with it. I have never experienced an unscheduled service interruption with my water, and scheduled service interruptions are very rare and advertised well in advance. My electricity is stable and reliable, and any power outages I've experienced have been brief, and exclusively due to exceptional weather events. I'm also a Comcast customer, and I…

Why would a lack of service by an internet provider be comparable to a utility pumping sewage? Shouldn't you be looking at water restrictions which the utilities blame on drought? This is the most similar type of event to the Comcast outage which you are describing. Both could have been prevented through better planning, capital expenditures, and forethought. If this is the comparison, both Comcast and many water pro…

I love how the upvote system encourages pedantry.

It's clear that Parent is saying "Comcast delivers shitty service" -> "water utility delivers shitty water".

It's a (possibly unintentional) pun, and I'm quite certain that Parent was able to get their point across regardless of technical inconsistencies.

But don't let that stop you in your quest to nitpick on the internet.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#118

Post by nickff »

xamuel wrote: post #83
nickff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a lack of service by an internet provider be comparable to a utility pumping sewage? Shouldn't you be looking at water restrictions which the utilities blame on drought? This is the most similar type of event to the Comcast outage which you are describing. Both could have been prevented through better planning, capital expenditures, and forethought. If this is the comparison, both Comcast and many water pro…

>Why would a lack of service by an internet provider be comparable to a utility pumping sewage? I work partly from home and, while not quite "utility pumping sewage" level of crisis, a badly-timed internet blackout at my apartment can be a serious problem for the whole team.

I agree entirely, it is comparable to a power outage (, which happens quite often both at my residence and place of work).

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#119

Post by Windwaker »

skylan_q wrote: post #103
0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is involving the FCC at all.

I'll have to agree to this. Electricity is electricity, water is water, natural gas is natural gas. But Internet traffic isn't a homogenous substance.

The utility that Internet providers are providing is information.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#120

Post by skylan_q »

pavanky wrote: post #108
skylan_q wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll have to agree to this. Electricity is electricity, water is water, natural gas is natural gas. But Internet traffic isn't a homogenous substance.

Bytes are bytes.

It delivers more than just bytes. It's communication in different forms for different purposes. On the other hand, when water is delivered it's the same water here or there.
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