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Science’s Biggest Fail

blog.dilbert.com

131–140 of 260 posts

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#131
I really appreciate Scott Adams' temperate perspectives on controversial issues. He's usually able to legitimately grasp the underpinnings of issues that most people in tech circles don't even want to countenance.

I have to agree that the overzealous apostles of Scientific Consensus that run around condemning people all the time often look very silly not-too-many-years-later. In their self-righteousness, they fail to see that they're just the same as the conservative grannies and aunts and uncles they look down upon with disdain: repeating a cherry-picked data point that they don't possibly have the professional background or academic context to actually understand, but which they fervently believe and adopt because it confirms their worldview and the people around them expect them to.

People are all fundamentally the same, and most people of any affiliation will propagate anything if they accept the authority of its source. This applies to conservative and liberal persons equally -- very few of them are even capable of deciding if an analysis of a complex topic is valid or not, let alone putting forth the effort to actually vet it. The world runs on trust.

Never trust a statistic you haven't faked yourself. Visit Retraction Watch for a frequently-updated sampling of things "science got wrong".

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#132
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that it's not the media's fault, because the media just blindly repeats whatever they're told. This is exactly why it's the media's fault! If a journalist doesn't have the skills to understand what they're reporting on, then they shouldn't be reporting on it. We wouldn't put up with a report on Afghanistan that says the place is full of Arabs because the reporter was told…

I'm sorry, but you're holding the media to an impossible standard. This isn't about "checking the CIA World Fact Book," it's "Read dozens of dense studies that assume PhD-level study in the relevant fields." The media does light fact-checking, and it's exactly that fact-checking that allows institutions to set an agenda. If a reporter sees a press release about a new study in, say, the field of cancer, and they try t…

If they can't properly fact-check what they report, then what good are they? Any monkey with a laptop can regurgitate press releases these days. I suppose this is why traditional media is rapidly becoming irrelevant.

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#133
First, researchers can't get funding unless everything they do is world-shattering and of clearly superior quality. This is why you'll never see a published paper with a title like, "We did X. It failed. This is probably not that important, but might be interesting at some point in the distant future." More importantly, you'll never see an article in a top journal titled, "These other guys did X, and now we have verified they're not full of beans by doing X too". How science is funded is directly responsible for both the titles we see in academic journals and the research that is actually done.

Second, even if a journal article isn't over the top in it's claims, the press releases about it will be. Journalists want to sell copy and generate page views. If what they're supposed to be reporting bores them, they'll get it wrong in an entertaining fashion more often than not. I'm sure Scott Adams and many here have heard that "Butter is healthier than margarine". A scientific study examined several margarines on the market and found that many brands contained a high percentage of saturated or trans fat. Based on the theory that saturated and trans fats are worse for your health than unsaturated fats (which is still supported by science) they concluded that some brands of margarine may be no more healthy than butter, which is mostly saturated fat (with some trans). A newspaper reported that this study proved that Butter was better for your than margarine, which was factually wrong based on that study, and then printed a retraction two weeks later. However, the damage was done. Dairy produces seized upon this single article and launched an ad campaign extolling the evils of their competitor. The "butter is better" myth persists to this day. The truth is still the same. Some margarines may be no better than butter, but others are.

I'd like to point out one of my own great disappointments about health and fitness: Medical doctors don't seem to know any more about it than the next guy. You'd think medical doctors, through their study of the human body and the many maladies that can affect it, would be the perfect people to tell you what to eat, what not to eat, how to exercise, etc.. They're not. Their profession is entirely focused on spotting problems that require medical intervention and then giving that intervention. When the body is healthy, the best thing they can do is leave the patient alone. This is because every medical treatment carries with it risks and side-effects. As such, an optimally running human body is the least interesting thing in the world to a medical doctor. Furthermore, they're taught to maintain patient confidence by seeming to know more than they do, and they take courses that teach them specifically how to do this. Yes, faking that you know more than you think you know is a course medical doctors take (Source: sibling who is a medical doctor). Asking the typical medical doctor about diet and fitness is like asking a used car salesman about fuel and oil mixtures for a F1 engine.

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#134
post #54

This is a pretty terrible post. Science didn't kick people in the balls for 20 years, the media did. The media pushed bogus results of bogus studies on people, and overstates the case that "X is because of Y" on real studies who do not make such strong claims themselves. The media is responsible for people's distrust of science, because not only do they push bogus claims, but they also push FUD as well. Particularly…

Actually, it would appear that scientists did, in fact, kick everyone in the balls for 20 years:

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/2014/6/the-s...

Perhaps it was accidental in most cases. However, in the field of medical studies, the withholding of studies with negative outcomes (and their data) could be rightly described as "highly unscrupulous" researcher behavior. And this has apparently been de rigeur in medical studies for some time, and continues today:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/05/scandal...

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that published results are near worthless, if those publishing results are allowed to withhold studies. You just do studies until you get the results you want, and then publish that one.

So, it is difficult to blame people for doubting things, when there is evidence of widespread "hacking" of results by so-called scientists.

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#135
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually know shockingly little about a lot of topics relative to our bodies. One big reason for this is that, ethically, we can't just go experiment on live humans. But genetics and human biological systems may only play a part of how nutrition affects us. As an example, science is just now coming around to is that the bacteria in our intestines has a huge impact on how our body reacts to food - and that those ba…

> One big reason for this is that, ethically, we can't just go experiment on live humans The US has an enormous prison population. They get fed for $2.50 per day. Is it possible to recruit prisoners ethically to take part in diet research?

Just think how much progress we could make in neurology if we could open up prisoners' brains and tinker around with them?

Or to link back to the nutrition topic, what if we could just take prisoners and replace their intestinal bacteria with different mixes of gut bacteria? Continue to feed them a control diet and see who lives, who dies, who gets fat and who loses weight. Obviously, that experiment would be terrible -- but we'd find out pretty quickly what the "magic formula" is.

Could we bioengineer a gut bacteria biome such that an otherwise unmodified human could consume crude oil as a source of nutrition? How about one that can't get drunk because the bacteria break down the ethanol right in the stomach? We probably could -- but many people would die in the research process.

I'm not saying that we should do this type of research -- but our lack of ability to do it has hampered our understanding of the human body, and will continue to slow progress relative to other scientific fields where such research IS ethically possible (e.g. building the LHC to understand subatomic particles).

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#136
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually know shockingly little about a lot of topics relative to our bodies. One big reason for this is that, ethically, we can't just go experiment on live humans. But genetics and human biological systems may only play a part of how nutrition affects us. As an example, science is just now coming around to is that the bacteria in our intestines has a huge impact on how our body reacts to food - and that those ba…

> One big reason for this is that, ethically, we can't just go experiment on live humans The US has an enormous prison population. They get fed for $2.50 per day. Is it possible to recruit prisoners ethically to take part in diet research?

It is in the same way it's possible to ethically recruit non-prisoners to take part in diet research.

That is - it is not ethical.

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#137
post #11

"I think science has earned its lack of credibility with the public. If you kick me in the balls for 20-years, how do you expect me to close my eyes and trust you?" I'm really happy to see that someone else sees this. I've been harping on this for a long time -- that the reason people believe things like anti-vaxx propaganda is not because they are idiots but because scientific authorities, the media, and the medical…

The blame is misplaced here, though. There's no real avenue for science to interact with the public currently (except for /r/AskScience, which is a terrific development). A vast majority of the misleading described is perpetuated by news headlines ending in question marks and "doctors" with mail order degrees trying to sell books. If there's any blame to be placed on scientific institutions it's not that they are bad…

I think there's also a general problem with people interpreting what's communicated to them. They need great storytellers to get across the correct information with the correct nuances. Otherwise you get media institutions with bogus headlines and misleading quotes to build hype and panic. Fox News is notorious for this, but most media prefers to sell snake oil over science because people want a simple message. Unfortunately science is not always simple.

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#138

I have a simple criterion for a summary judgement of the reliability of results: a) Is the data made available? b) Is it a Bayesian analysis? c) Has a power study been offered? As a statistician, I have a keen awareness of the ways that p-values can depart from truth. You can see Optimizely's effort to cope ( https://www.optimizely.com/statistics ). You can read about it in The Cult of Statistical Significance ( http…

R A Fisher is now promoting Bayesian analysis???

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Fisher+%22prominent+opp...

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#139
post #70
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And how can they compete with exaggeration by media outlets? Well, we've seen lately an uptake in science evangelists like Bill Nye and Neil Degrasse Tyson. Both have been around for a long while, building reputation, but as-of-late both have been on a full assault against fallacies perpetuated by the media and the like. We need more publicly-accepted household-named science evangelists to promote science, how it w…

While pretty good about science, Neil Degrasse Tyson has aided in perpetuating misunderstandings of history and philosophy that make me shy away from supporting his work.

Thing is - the tribal caveman in us craves to hear from a wise man (or wise woman). We didn't evolve with that sort of thing being specialized. So, knowledge celebrities will be in an environment that encourages pontificating on subjects they aren't experts about.

Re: Science’s Biggest Fail

#140
Jeez, I think Scott Adams is barking up a wrong tree here. The reason science has lost credibility is because of vested interest groups who put money into labs so as to get a result tailor made for them. Just as pattern recognition is one of our traits, fudging numbers and data is also up there. Add to it marketing which uses psychology to draw on our strings and play humans as puppets. I would be surprised if all this didn't amount to the fragmented society that we currently live in.

Also Scott Adams is using very choosy topics to make his case against science which may not hold true in generality. The difficulty of getting sugar rich diet and drinks out of schools shows how obesity is not primarily due to lack of credible science. This also applies to Tobacco. I think this whole blog is a sensationalist piece which jumps from one extreme to another.

> I’m pro-science because the alternatives are worse. (Example: ISIS.)

ISIS is not an example of lack of science but an example of lack of empathy and humanity.

I agree that the layman is not an idiot but there is a whole system built into society to patronize them and to make him/her feel that way. People are constantly told to rest their judgement and let the authorities tell them what it implies. This happens right from childhood where parents for the fear of being exposed of lacking knowledge on the topic use their authoritarian powers to suppress curiosity. A child who is constantly being exposed to that treatment will outsource his/her judgement for the ones put across by pundits in the media when they grow up.

I think the "The Clean Room" episode [0] in NgT's COSMOS brings the fault in our system quite effectively by showing how Clair Patterson had to battle great odds to bring the ill effects of lead in Gasoline primarily because there was a big vested interest group who were against it. It's available on Netflix and I would recommend it highly.

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3410940/?ref_=ttep_ep7

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