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Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

dev.windows.com

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Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#171

Post by Paradigma11 »

higherpurpose wrote: post #89
Filthy_casual wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop with this argument? Every time a business makes a business-oriented decision someone will pop out to call them out for being acting for their own benefit, as if it's somehow bad. Like every human exchange, you don't have to be an altruist for your deed to be good. It's alright to do "good" even if it derives some sort of benefit for yourself or your company.

Except this move only really benefits Microsoft. And it's certainly not for the "love of open source".

Why would i care what the motivations of Microsoft are?

What is important is how it affects me and my interests.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#172

Post by [deleted] »

trentnelson wrote: post #94
ekr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, while legally, you are perfectly right, Windows is as close as ever, it's not actually that hard to look under the hood. I work as a Windows device driver developer, and sometimes I need to reverse engineer some of the internals, and the source code from WRK is easily available on the internet : ( http://gate.upm.ro/os/LABs/Windows_OS_Internals_Curriculum_R... ). These are sources from 2005-2006 timeframe, but t…

> http://gate.upm.ro/os/LABs/Windows_OS_Internals_Curriculum_R... Oh my. Aaaaand, mirrored. There's also this, which seems about the same level of should-this-actually-be-publicly-available: https://github.com/njdragonfly/WinNT4

[deleted]

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#173

Post by chernevik »

Filthy_casual wrote: post #76
belgianguy wrote: post #73

I don't think Microsoft is doing it for the Open-Source spirit, as many seem to believe. They have a long history of attacking/smearing open source and displaying a "I heart Linux" slide is not sufficient to erase all the FUD and their questionable software patent licensing schemes (which are completely anti-open). They called Linux a cancer, even. I think they're approaching this from a redundancy point of view, if…

Can we stop with this argument? Every time a business makes a business-oriented decision someone will pop out to call them out for being acting for their own benefit, as if it's somehow bad. Like every human exchange, you don't have to be an altruist for your deed to be good. It's alright to do "good" even if it derives some sort of benefit for yourself or your company.

I have no problems with mixed motives, it's a complicated world.

But a lot of people are saying 1) this doesn't offer anything educationally that wasn't already available and 2) introduces users to restrictions that will ultimately be costs to their educational development.

There is 3) teachers will be familiar with Windows and thus more able to offer computer education with it. You can do real stuff on a Windows machine, but most of what I see on Windows machines in schools is "here kids, this is how you work Excel / Word Powerpoint". Frankly I worry that inner city schools will be blanketed with these things, with token "computer education" offered on them, and everyone congratulating themselves on addressing the technology gap while the kids learn some Office and not much more.

Doesn't that say that the tools / model being offered here is fundamentally broken? If you can't give it away without slowing down the progress you're trying to help, that's a problem.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#174

Post by mark_l_watson »

belgianguy wrote: post #73

I don't think Microsoft is doing it for the Open-Source spirit, as many seem to believe. They have a long history of attacking/smearing open source and displaying a "I heart Linux" slide is not sufficient to erase all the FUD and their questionable software patent licensing schemes (which are completely anti-open). They called Linux a cancer, even. I think they're approaching this from a redundancy point of view, if…

Microsoft Azure has very good support for Linux. One thing I like in particular is how quick it is to reboot a running Linux VPS with more or less memory and CPU. It has made me reconsider using vertical scaling in addition to horizontal scaling for some applications. Faster and easier than with AWS.

Except for writing a commercial app for Windows 1.0, I have not been much of a Microsoft fan over the years but that has changed. I joined their BizSpark program, I now have a family subscription to Office 365, and even recently bought a Windows 8.1 laptop. I usually develop using a Linux laptop but Windows 8.1 and OS X are also both nice enough to use for development.

I think Microsoft's change in direction with supporting their productivity tools on all platforms (for Linux, using the web based version of Office 365 is handy) is surprising, but makes a lot of sense.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#176

Post by bryondowd »

anilgulecha wrote: post #50
quonn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, it's just another _option_. How can this possibly be a bad thing? You can of course still run Linux.

I think this was answered. It's bad because teachers would push for a platform they presumably know more about -- Windows.

Going to play devil's advocate here. Teachers will push Windows, because they know about it and they can teach it. If you throw a pile of linux machines at teachers, how many are going to have the time, ability, and will to actually learn it well enough to teach it?

It's hard enough to get a school to teach kids anything beyond using Office. I'd be happy to make things as easy as possible on the teacher who are willing to go the extra mile to teach with a Pi, without making them go another 10 miles learning a new OS to do it.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#177

Post by spdustin »

catern wrote: post #166
morganvachon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see anything in the parent's comment about GNU/Linux or FreeBSD on desktop PCs, nor was I talking about it on desktop PCs. The Raspberry Pi has always been meant as a learning device, a maker's toolkit, a base for building something other than a boring desktop PC. The fact that it now has the power to be a desktop PC doesn't mean that's all it will ever be. One definition (the one I was using) of "flourish"…

What? These are not "old prejudices", Windows is still proprietary software and that's still harmful to user freedom. This is not just "one more channel for learning", it's a dying proprietary platform trying to piggyback on the success of a popular open-source platform.

While I don't run Windows in my house (except in a VM for work), I make a living teaching a product that does run on Windows, and I'm not an Apple (or Microsoft) apologist.

And I humbly submit that Windows as far from a dying platform. Less popular, sure, the numbers bear that out, but popularity isn't a measure of longevity. If that was the case, OS X would be dead, along with most Unix-like OSs.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#178

Post by rburhum »

ekr wrote: post #66
microtonal wrote: post #37

I am usually not the one to blow the free software horn (being a staunch believer of non-copyleft licenses such as the Apache License) and the geek in me likes this announcement. I also don't hold a grudge against Windows, I think it is a fine system for most people. However, Windows seems very much contrary to the goal of the Raspberry Pi: providing a device for children to tinker with and educate themselves. Althou…

Now, while legally, you are perfectly right, Windows is as close as ever, it's not actually that hard to look under the hood. I work as a Windows device driver developer, and sometimes I need to reverse engineer some of the internals, and the source code from WRK is easily available on the internet : ( http://gate.upm.ro/os/LABs/Windows_OS_Internals_Curriculum_R... ). These are sources from 2005-2006 timeframe, but t…

So basically, you can set the example for kids to not give a crap about IP and that it is OK to study/do whatever they want with something they find online. Nevermind that because they have not signed the MS agreement it is basically stolen property.

I see somebody mirrored it already.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#179

Post by bohol »

ekianjo wrote: post #152
bohol wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about pre-90s and I've been to many demoparties. Do you want to refute that the PC demoscene have had a huge impact on the modern games industry? Because if you read my original comment, that is my point. Oh, and maybe you should read the site guidelines, second paragraph under "In Comments". https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

First, I was not answering to your "mid 90s" comment. I was referring to that one: > The cracking scene, demoscene and games industry was almost exclusively built on Windows. Which is blatantly false. Where do you think Team 17 come from ? A number of their members were recruited on the Amiga demo scene, and that was well before PC gaming was a thing. And huh, the game industry existed way before PC Gaming. In 1985 t…

I know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the PC scene from early nineties to today that made up many of the founders and employees at today's games companies. You're have some high horse argument that the scene and games industry started before that, even though the connection at that point is much more unclear. There were of course some overlap, especially people starting out late with commodore, but less than you would think. If it makes you feel better you can insert "modern" or "for the last 25 years" in my previous statement.

And yes I've also been on HN for a while, longer than you if that is your first username.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#180

Post by morganvachon »

catern wrote: post #166
morganvachon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see anything in the parent's comment about GNU/Linux or FreeBSD on desktop PCs, nor was I talking about it on desktop PCs. The Raspberry Pi has always been meant as a learning device, a maker's toolkit, a base for building something other than a boring desktop PC. The fact that it now has the power to be a desktop PC doesn't mean that's all it will ever be. One definition (the one I was using) of "flourish"…

What? These are not "old prejudices", Windows is still proprietary software and that's still harmful to user freedom. This is not just "one more channel for learning", it's a dying proprietary platform trying to piggyback on the success of a popular open-source platform.

Given that Microsoft is steadily becoming more open-source friendly and I'm seeing them being ridiculed for it across the web, I'd say a lot of old prejudice is at play.

Besides, Google's version of Android is also proprietary software that is not only harmful to user freedom, it's also more and more privacy hostile every day. Yet Google is still held as the pinnacle of open source friendly companies in some circles. Old prejudices, again.

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