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Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

syriza.net.gr

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Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#241

Post by eli_gottlieb »

peterfirefly wrote: post #238
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you more worried about anti-fascists than about fascists?

Because the "anti"-fascists are fascists and PEGIDA are anti-fascists. Their anti-fascism is one of the reasons why they are against Islam -- anyone who is against suppresion, violence, and fascism ought to be against Islam, just as they should be against Communism and Nazism.

I don't think you can call PEGIDA antifascists, since they're, well, far-right nationalists who hate immigrants and have violent tendencies. Just because the Antifa organization holds an intellectually inconsistent position doesn't mean the reverse position from Antifa is actually correct.

Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#242

Post by UweSchmidt »

viccuad wrote: post #162
UweSchmidt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about 4. Greece leaves the EU. There could still be favourable trade agreements and some currency stabilizing etc. so it's not the end of the world, but it would be a wakeup call for everyone to treat their finances a little more seriously. German yellow press also mentioned various social programs in Greece that can only be described as frivolous even by social state standards. It's harder to be sympathetic with…

> German yellow press also mentioned various social programs in Greece that can only be described as frivolous even by social state standards. It's harder to be sympathetic with the Greek cause if we're paying for higher welfare abroad than we enjoy ourselves. You are free to move there.

This has nothing to do with me:

- I wouldn't be eligible to most of these purported benefits in Greece - My standards of living would likely be lower even with funny welfare - Moving there would theoretically make it worse since theoretically I'm currently helping/paying

So, why not write another open letter that discusses reasonable ways to save some money, OR debunk myths that discourage peope from helping?

Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#243

Post by bibabo »

antman wrote: post #222
bibabo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The Baltic states, Poland, everyone except the southern countries (and I assume Spain with a thriving economy in 2014/2015 will join the club when unemployment drops) is on the same page. But as an excellent demagogue Tsipras knows he needs a simple enemy (Germany) to rally the mob. 2. Yes Germany defaulted, but did not make it it's modus operandi. Excellent that you've brought up the Marshall plan: The Marshall p…

The Marshall plan in Greece included a huge sum to buying weapons to fend off communism which were not useful and did not go to any Greek. There was no industrial development in Greece. That was not the case in Germany, it got the funds and more importantly the new technology for steel production that helped the Germany. Germans were needed as strong stopping force against the Communists. I dont know if at that early…

Some notes:

1. From the payment date of 1947 it looks more like it went into the Greek civil war - fought by Greeks against Greeks (1946-1949). Tough decision to have another war after devastating WWII. 2. Germany bought weapons for the newly built "Bundeswehr" - most of them from the US.

Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#244

Post by antman »

bibabo wrote: post #243
antman wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Marshall plan in Greece included a huge sum to buying weapons to fend off communism which were not useful and did not go to any Greek. There was no industrial development in Greece. That was not the case in Germany, it got the funds and more importantly the new technology for steel production that helped the Germany. Germans were needed as strong stopping force against the Communists. I dont know if at that early…

Some notes: 1. From the payment date of 1947 it looks more like it went into the Greek civil war - fought by Greeks against Greeks (1946-1949). Tough decision to have another war after devastating WWII. 2. Germany bought weapons for the newly built "Bundeswehr" - most of them from the US.

It was actually Greeks fighting Nazi collaborators who had changed allegiance and had become britsh friendly. That government was not elected and was flown in from the british hq in cairo. A forced colonial debt.

Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#245

Post by bibabo »

As Tsipras and his party compared Mrs. Merkel to Hitler, what is happening to Greece to the Holocaust (implying fired state employees have the same fate as victims in concentration camps) and calling the German finance minister 'Gauleiter' this is a tough sell.

Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#246

Post by bibabo »

antman wrote: post #244
bibabo wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some notes: 1. From the payment date of 1947 it looks more like it went into the Greek civil war - fought by Greeks against Greeks (1946-1949). Tough decision to have another war after devastating WWII. 2. Germany bought weapons for the newly built "Bundeswehr" - most of them from the US.

It was actually Greeks fighting Nazi collaborators who had changed allegiance and had become britsh friendly. That government was not elected and was flown in from the british hq in cairo. A forced colonial debt.

You are quick with calling everybody a 'Nazi', aren't you?

Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#247

Post by bibabo »

atmosx wrote: post #172
bibabo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The Baltic states, Poland, everyone except the southern countries (and I assume Spain with a thriving economy in 2014/2015 will join the club when unemployment drops) is on the same page. But as an excellent demagogue Tsipras knows he needs a simple enemy (Germany) to rally the mob. 2. Yes Germany defaulted, but did not make it it's modus operandi. Excellent that you've brought up the Marshall plan: The Marshall p…

Germany defaulted 3 times in 100 years, you can find the dates on Google (if you can't let me know, I'll help you). Greece has defaulted 3 times (actually 4 counting 2010). I'd say it's a modus operandi . One even might assume that making world wars is a modus operandi given the fact that it happened twice the last century. > 3. Tax cheaters always find moral explainations for their behaviour. So does anyone else[1]…

About the modus operandi: Greece in years of financial crisis

http://uk.businessinsider.com/greece-spends-90-years-in-defa...

Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#248

Post by antman »

bibabo wrote: post #246
antman wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was actually Greeks fighting Nazi collaborators who had changed allegiance and had become britsh friendly. That government was not elected and was flown in from the british hq in cairo. A forced colonial debt.

You are quick with calling everybody a 'Nazi', aren't you?

Everybody?

Re: Open letter to German readers: What you were never told about Greece

#249

Post by bibabo »

bibabo wrote: post #246
antman wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was actually Greeks fighting Nazi collaborators who had changed allegiance and had become britsh friendly. That government was not elected and was flown in from the british hq in cairo. A forced colonial debt.

You are quick with calling everybody a 'Nazi', aren't you?

Everybody with a different point of view, like the elected Government in Greece from 1946 and it's voters.

You share this trait with Syriza and many Greeks today it seems, who are also quick to call people Nazis.

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