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Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

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Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#111
post #68

I have been thinking, reading and writing about motivation / discipline / procrastination / akrasia for years now. I'm always looking for really good material on the subject. Unfortunately for some strange reason, most of the posts I've seen that get to the front page of Hacker News are woefully oversimplistic. Even discipline is something that requires some sort of motivation to cultivate. It is something that you h…

I think part of the discipline problem is the solipsism of our times. In an army, your environment provides discipline and (often) fosters motivation for (for example) fitness. A fitness class reduces the need to discipline & self motivation to getting yourself to the class. After that, the environment takes care of itself. Self discipline and self motivation is a problematic subset of discipline and we're not really…

> Having discipline and motivation together is easier than alone. It's why I don't think online education can replace institutional education (though I think it can make it much better) as the default mode. It's why even in one-on-one sports like tennis or boxing young athletes are on "teams."

I'm very passionate about this!

I think people completely misunderstand what online education is going to be like. Currently, it tends to be approached from a "Just like school but in the cloud" POV.

That's like saying online music is "a record store but in the cloud"- it's not! There's streaming and remixes and downloads and all sorts of interesting things that are enabled by the new model that simply weren't present before.

Similarly, "online education" isn't about sitting through video lectures and then doing tests. It's about reaching out to real people, building real relationships, working on real projects. It's simply self-directed learning, with the guidance, help and support of peers.

There are a lot of things you can learn to do online, and a huge part of it is getting into the right communities, building relationships with the right people, etc.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#112

I completely agree with this article. I would like to share a story of my own journey in this. For a long time I had wanted to lose some weight and to remove some bad habits. It dawned on me that I could eliminate the habit altogether by scaling back to extreme levels. For example, I completely stopped eating sugary foods such as chocolate for 8 months. I stopped buying coffee from coffee shops every day. I replaced…

Nicholas Nassim Taleb calls this solving problems 'via negativa'

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a different person due to the supplements and food I eat. I'm obsessed about always improving my nutrition and supplement stack. It's paying off in terms of how much work I'm capable of doing. "Give your body the right food and it will do the right thing" is something I believe in. That combined with the routine of going to a 9-5, then afterwards going to a coworking space for my startup, I'm really getting a lot…

Care to share what that means for you, food wise?

Listing everything I do for nutrition probably won't help anyone - people can't be told to add/remove certain foods without a strong belief that it will be beneficial to them. It's like politics. You can't convince a die-hard conservative to suddenly become a liberal with a comment on the internet.

For example if I went back in time I could tell my teenage self everything about nutrition. Unfortunately it would be pointless. Even though I'd listen, without the years of experimentation, forming beliefs and learning I would never have the discipline to think "These foods are poison. Other people can eat them, but not me."

So it's a long process and I think people should discover what works for themselves. But since you asked, here's what I eat and don't eat as of now...

NEVER EAT: HFCS, DAIRY, processed foods, greasy foods, red meat, brominated/bleached flour, unfermented soy (especially soybean oil), alcohol, artificial flavored foods or things that you don't recognize the ingredients, basically avoid all restaurants even supposedly healthy ones

EAT: Tons of organic vegetables/fruit, things cooked in coconut or olive oil, organic chicken, organic eggs, sprouted wheat, high-quality spring water, home cooking flavored with herbs/spices instead of sugary/salty sauces, foods with high omega 3s or high antioxidants, cook everything yourself using basic ingredients

Things that are listed "never eat" I make no compromises for no matter the pressure... "Oh hey - it's our company's annual pizza taste-testing competition, you can make an exception this time can't you? Don't you want some of this amazing pizza with cheese, soybean oil and brominated wheat flour in it. NO!?! What's wrong with you? Are you going to risk your job by not participating???"

YES - I will quit my job before eating pizza... it's poison to me, I won't eat it.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#114
post #94

This seems to me to be a bit like saying "screw hammers, what you need are screwdrivers." There's a brilliant talk by John Cleese that floats around HN every 6 months or so on how to be creative; if you haven't seen it yet, and you're interested in such a topic, please please please watch it: http://vimeo.com/89936101 If you agree with Cleese's premise, I think it follows that what you need is motivation for the open…

Thanks for the video! I find this submission and the video you linked talking about being in an "open" or "closed" state ironic for me, because I just made a relevant comment on the football thread yesterday [1]. My argument was that rather than focusing so much on the reasons why people are or aren't interested in football, we should be concerned about the amount of time that debate and following football itself con…

Sports and other games aren't simply a pass-time - its a group dynamic and show of very high levels of cooperation and mechanical skill in a fast-changing environment with many factors. Its one of those things that humans can still do much better than machines. Its also pertinent to many people's lives because if you work in a group you can see in full HD an example of a relatively diverse group of people working together all specialized towards their own goal.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#115
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so what can one do? I have a genetic discipline disorder, as 23andMe could confirm you, if I could be bothered to do the screening. I possess exactly ZERO self-discipline, and in retrospect, I guess I never had any. I own my career to not having enough discipline to do my math homework at 13 - that's when I picked up programming. The lack of self-discipline is becoming an obstacle in professional lie though. How…

Try to decrease your reliance on self discipline. IE, get external forces working in your favour. You could use a coach or psychologist. Commit to tasks. Make sure they check up on you. Work closely with others. Pair programming or an environment where someone is waiting for you to finish something so they can start something else. Seek environments where you can't hide procrastination. discipline thrives in public.…

This seems like awful advice to inflict yourself as a burden (pair programming, always seeking review and validation) rather than being self disciplined, autonomous and professional.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#118

I completely agree with this article. I would like to share a story of my own journey in this. For a long time I had wanted to lose some weight and to remove some bad habits. It dawned on me that I could eliminate the habit altogether by scaling back to extreme levels. For example, I completely stopped eating sugary foods such as chocolate for 8 months. I stopped buying coffee from coffee shops every day. I replaced…

My problem with this is someday I'll rationalize that its not a big deal and go on a spending/eating spree...

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#119
Basically true. Glad to see that it's still something from oneself(self-discipline) instead of anything imposed by the outside world. However there's one thing that I can't really agree with:

> Trying to drum up enthusiasm for fundamentally dull and soul crushing activities is literally a form of deliberate psychological self-harm, a voluntary insanity: “I AM SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THESE SPREADSHEETS, I CAN’T WAIT TO FILL OUT THE EQUATION FOR FUTURE VALUE OF ANNUITY, I LOVE MY JOB SOOO MUCH!”

Nonsense. "Cutting the link between feelings and actions" is to prevent the short-term irrational and counterproductive effects brought by fickle emotions. That's totally right. However, if you don't have a fundamental, long-term passion for what you're doing, then you'll definitely have serious troubles. If the author doesn't like filling spreadsheets, that's fine. I don't like it either. However he cannot plainly declare that everybody who says he/she likes it to be insane. This is quite hilarious.

Of course, "interest" and “passion” in most cases are actually brought about by consistent devotion and hard work in the first place. Then a positive feedback loop is formed. That’s true. You can’t expect most people to “love” what he/she does without he/she mastering it and deriving joy from it first. However if you just choronically feel your job is dull and “soul crushing", then you should probably seriously consider seeking something else to do. That is totally different from admitting that cake is more seducive than broccoli, but just rationally and correctly deciding to eat broccoli for the sake of health. In the latter case, the problem is that our currently technology pretty much doesn't allow you to enjoy a cake-flavored broccoli. So you've got no rational choice but to eat broccoli. However in the case of jobs, you're a free person. If you really can't like a job even after you've learned to do it systematically and with discipline, just change one which you have more passion for. There's definitely no problem to it.

I generally understand what the author is trying to emphasize here. I am probably just being a bit picky and feel he didn’t employ the appropriate words/example in this place.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#120
post #8

Ah, but what is discipline? Shifting the vocabulary burden around doesn't accomplish much. Discipline easily translates to will power (to do even in the face of adverse circumstances). But haven't we learned recently to consider will power a finite resource? Something that cannot be switched on at will arbitrarily[0]? The author himself escapes this accusation only by the skin of his teeth in the next-to-last paragra…

Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. ~ Aristotle
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