Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports • Hacker News Board

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#451

Post by tomjen3 » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:04 PM UTC

hiou wrote: post #376

copsarebastards wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultivating an active ignorance about sports is stupid--knowing more things never hurt anyone. And I definitely see that trend in my peers. That said, I wouldn't go the further step to say that people should somehow be obligated to like sports. I don't like most sports--for reasons brought up, but not really expanded by the article. My main beef with sports is the effects sports have on education. My city spends mill…

I would say that your comments are exactly what the article is talking about. You've decided to exclude yourself because you feel the existence and importance placed on it by others is misplaced and essentially stupid. So you are in essence calling people who like professional sports at best misinformed and at worst stupid. That's pretty much the definition of elitism as far as I know it. You think you know more than…

There is nothing wrong with elitism, so long as it is being done by actual elites. Do you want the seal team coming to rescue you to consist of the best of the best (meaning the average Joe has no chance of getting in) or whomever applied?

Elitism is another word for the post modern idea that A isn't A, that nothing is absolute and there is no truth.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#452

Post by tomjen3 » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:06 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #233

pekk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about sports. If you start a conversation with me about sports, it'll be short. I'm not being mean to anyone who likes sports, I just don't care. You don't get to tell me that I'm wrong for not sharing your interest. Liking sports isn't obligatory.

The ability to talk to people about things that interest them but not yourself is a very important skill to cultivate. The intersection of yourself with "people worth knowing and talking to" is bigger than the intersection of yourself with "people who share your interests".

I wouldn't be surprised if the intersection of people worth talking to/with and people who can't or won't want to talk about sports is pretty close to the empty set.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#453

Post by wtbob » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:09 PM UTC

genericuser wrote: post #134

serve_yay wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that rooting out and shaming "snobs" is becoming something of a cultural pastime. It really bothers people when you don't like what they like. So it must be because you're an asshole snob, not because you just don't like it. It's related to all the anti-"hipster" crap that has popped up in recent years. It's fun because skewering "hipsters" is puncturing pretensions, you're taking cultural snobs down a…

It isn't about not liking what other people like, it's about being a jerk about it. I for instance don't care for sports. And that is how I phrase it when asked. If there is a sports related conversation taking place I am generally more upset at the snobs demanding to be a part of the conversation just so they can shit all over sports in general, than the people that are spending an hour talking about a specific play…

> It isn't about not liking what other people like, it's about being a jerk about it.

Well, that jerkiness is often a reaction to the jerkiness of many sports-lovers, who abuse one in grade school and raise one's taxes to pay for their hobbies in adulthood, and spend so much time expecting that everyone shares their enthusiasms.

> It very much is a social thing where you need to know how to politely excuse yourself from conversations and situations you do not want to be a part of rather than trying to evangelize your view that they suck.

I (eventually) learnt that not everyone shared my love of science fiction and fantasy; I don't trot out Tolkien or Asimov every time I'm talking to most folks. It would be nice if folks didn't trot out football or baseball when talking to me. If I had to learn to suppress my enthusiasms except around the like-minded, why haven't they?

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#454

Post by briandear » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:14 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #116

Goronmon wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice. What other corporate products must I consume in order to be a validated member of your social caste? Whats funny is that you could actually bring up this topic with fans of mainstream sports (especially for the NFL) and probably get a decent discussion going. Just mention things like TV timeouts and you'll probably get some level of agreement on how annoying things have gotten these days. Of course, if y…

"Of course, if you phrase it in a way similar to how you did above, people will most likely just think you were an asshole." Of course, a similar thought most likely crossed my mind when I read the parent comment.

The original comment seems to reinforce the article's point.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#455

Post by briandear » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:19 PM UTC

muaddirac wrote: post #132

rinon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a valid reason why some activity is intrinsically bad (e.g. fast food) is very different from disliking such activities because they are "beneath" you. Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad. (I'd even argue that fast food itself is not intrinsically bad, but that's a different discussion) However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.…

Is the damage American Football causes to its players a valid reason for disliking the activity?

They know the risks and accept them. If it were dogfighting there might be an argument. I don't like football simply because I find it a bit boring. However, perhaps ironically to some, I like baseball; it's like fishing, mildly hypnotic with occasional bursts of excitement.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#456

Post by wtbob » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:19 PM UTC

lotharbot wrote: post #77

solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

> he is saying in effect "What you love is obtuse and low brow" More than that, he is in effect saying "there is no depth to this thing" (which he hasn't studied in depth enough to know). Which is both rude and arrogant. It's one thing to say you don't understand a thing and aren't interested in it, and then politely discuss things you are (mutually) interested in. It's quite another to distill something you don't un…

> More than that, he is in effect saying "there is no depth to this thing"

More precisely, 'there is no depth that is emotionally or intellectually relevant to me.' I'm sure there is lots of depth to the architecture Robin Hood Gardens, but it still should be levelled.

Likewise, while you're quite right that there's lots of depth to professional sports, I don't think that means that anyone should care, or be expected to care.

Contempt is bad, and obviously it's a fact that sports are popular, that most people like sports and that those of us who don't care are, in some pertinent sense, socially ill-developed. Still, what about the contempt which sports-lovers have for sports-haters? I think that's far more harmful, both in childhood and adulthood.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#457

Post by Tycho » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:20 PM UTC

I know the type of person who has a 'cultivated lack of interest' in sports. Thing is, I don't really associate it with the 'educated elite.' Most smart people I know are actually quite passionate about professional sports.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#458

Post by glesica » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:26 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #446

glesica wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >how the sporting department despite those figures manages to be a net budgetry drain on almost every school which has one > And so are music departments. If the band directors made millions of dollars, you would have a good point.

If band directors brought in millions in revenue and PR value to a school, then YOU would have a point. Nobody would have ever heard of Gonzaga university if it weren't for basketball. At the schools with million dollar coaches, they bring in millions in revenue in both tickets, licensing as well as intangible PR value. I am not defending or disparaging college sports, I am making the point that a school's band progr…

If the donations go to the athletic programs, then it doesn't matter. There are also numerous hidden costs associated with athletic programs, like law enforcement and extra tutoring for athletes. On top of that, most schools require ALL students (even those who don't attend sports games) to pay a fee, which acts as an additional subsidy. Even further, many public universities use part of the money they receive from their respective states to fund athletic programs.

The band students pay tuition to be there. If the football players paid tuition to be on the team and the sports teams were subsidized at the same rate as the band program, I wouldn't care.

There are a handful (maybe 20?) of schools that probably make an overall profit from their sports teams, but the rest of the thousands of colleges and universities in the US operate their sports programs at a loss. Those are really the schools I'm talking about.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#459

Post by valvar » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

While I may agree that it's being snobbish, I would emphatically disagree with your view of it as being a 'problem with your social skills'. In fact, I think it is the very opposite - snobbishness, overt or otherwise, is a form of social signalling, and personal distaste for that form of social signalling does not mean that it shows a lack of social skills (though it may obviously, as mentioned, be problematic for other reasons). Social skills do not merely consist of pleasant components.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#460

Post by wtbob » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 2:32 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #233

pekk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about sports. If you start a conversation with me about sports, it'll be short. I'm not being mean to anyone who likes sports, I just don't care. You don't get to tell me that I'm wrong for not sharing your interest. Liking sports isn't obligatory.

The ability to talk to people about things that interest them but not yourself is a very important skill to cultivate. The intersection of yourself with "people worth knowing and talking to" is bigger than the intersection of yourself with "people who share your interests".

> The ability to talk to people about things that interest them but not yourself is a very important skill to cultivate.

Isn't that a two-way street though? If I must feign interest in the saga of Manchester United or the troubles of Peyton Manning, why mustn't others likewise be expected to feign interest in Njál's Saga or the tale of Luthien & Beren?

Well, the pragmatic reason is that most folks care about sports, and most folks don't care about fantastic fiction. And you're quite right that there are benefits to knowing and connecting with more folks than just those who share one's interests.

But it's annoying to have to conform to their interests and never have them conform to one's own nonetheless. Kinda like being annoyed at gravity, I guess, but it's still annoying.