Discipline is not really a conscious choice since you can enhance it through medication. So if you have the right makeup then you don't need motivation to do things while others can get roughly the same effect by taking Ritalin. Motivation however is something that can help everyone which is why it is so much more powerful.
Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
31–40 of 121 posts
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#32G.D D.MN this is so well written:
"I do not consider self-inflicted episodes of hypomania the optimal driver of human activity. A thymic compensation via depressive episodes is inevitable, since the human brain will not tolerate abuse indefinitely. There are stops and safety valves. There are hormonal hangovers."
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#33This article gets some important things backwards in order to take on its overconfident alpha dog tone.
Notably absent is how goals are chosen. Certainly some goals are better than others? And won't we be more motivated to pursue good goals and less motivated to pursue bad goals? And then mustn't we pay attention to a lack of motivation as the sign that we've chosen our goals poorly?
That said, I agree that discipline is important because even when you've chosen good goals, there will be hard, boring work required to achieve them.
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#34I have been thinking, reading and writing about motivation / discipline / procrastination / akrasia for years now. I'm always looking for really good material on the subject. Unfortunately for some strange reason, most of the posts I've seen that get to the front page of Hacker News are woefully oversimplistic. Even discipline is something that requires some sort of motivation to cultivate. It is something that you h…
Amen. Also loved the book 'The Willpower Instinct' [1] in that respect. No magic solutions; just a collection of insights into the multitude of relevant dynamics at play here.
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10865206-the-willpower-i...
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#35Wow, this hits so close to home for me. I have intentionally been trying to cultivate better habits to underpin my own efforts to become more disciplined and effective, and in fact, I wouldn't have even been awake yet[1] to see this on HN if I hadn't been taking steps in that direction already.
From what I've observed, the most successful/effective/ humans of the present and past (and presumably, the future as well) have been know for the rigor of their habits and schedules[2]. I'm curious to know what steps some of my fellow HNers have taken to cultivate better habits/routines for themselves.
I'll leave you with a quote from the legendary artist Chuck Close:
“Inspiration is for amateurs — the rest of us just show up and get to work.”
1. It's before 7am CST, and I've been awake for almost two hours: https://twitter.com/thisisbrians/status/561486866914869248
2. This list is just of 'creatives' (whatever that means), but you get the idea: https://podio.com/site/creative-routines
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#36Did you ever notice that nobody ever talks about how to cultivate disciplne? If it wee as easy as "just go do it" than everyone would.
The latest analogy of discipline is of a muscle. Do more and it gets bigger, right? Not exactly. While true in some aspect, it leads to bad choices on later decisions you make, at least in creative work.
Three ways to improve discipline:
1. Develop a mindful meditation practice. It will produce more awareness, which in my experience helps me get started and work through to the edge of where I am making bad decisions, and recognize if I'm bored or actually tired and adjust accordingly. You will know if it helps you within a few weeks.
2. Develop a choice minimal lifestyle. Arbitrary choices seemingly come from the same pool as discipline. Where possible, turn choices into a habit. "I start at 9 because I start at 9' not because I choose to start at 9." It seems odd but it works.
3. Closely related, excersise will increase your mental endurance, which is as good as discipline in many cases. Diet also increased it -- while a quick glycogen hit can help for 15 minutes, I have found great benefit to dropping sugar and simple carbohydrates out of my diet while working. It's worth seeing if it works for you.
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#37Motivation is what gets you started. Discipline is what keeps you going.
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#38I have been thinking, reading and writing about motivation / discipline / procrastination / akrasia for years now. I'm always looking for really good material on the subject. Unfortunately for some strange reason, most of the posts I've seen that get to the front page of Hacker News are woefully oversimplistic. Even discipline is something that requires some sort of motivation to cultivate. It is something that you h…
Amen. Also loved the book 'The Willpower Instinct' [1] in that respect. No magic solutions; just a collection of insights into the multitude of relevant dynamics at play here. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10865206-the-willpower-i...
Also good seems to be The Procrastination Equation [1]– the key insight is that there are (at least!) 4 variables involved in why we don't do things that we say we want to do:
* Expectancy, which is your own estimation of how likely you are to complete a task
* Value, which is how important something is to you
* Impulsiveness, determined by the environment that you're in
* Delay, which is the amount of time between whatever you're doing, and the consequence or implication of the thing you're doing.
Getting things done requires dealing with all of the above variables. "Screw Motivation, You Need Discipline" essentially addresses Impulsiveness- it says to be less impulsive, by cultivating good habits. Sure, but that's just 25% of the battle.
[1] http://www.amazon.com/The-Procrastination-Equation-Putting-G...
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#39Discipline is not really a conscious choice since you can enhance it through medication. So if you have the right makeup then you don't need motivation to do things while others can get roughly the same effect by taking Ritalin.
"A choice", i. e. free will, and something that can be changed via medication aren't mutually exclusive. I'd think most people would agree that getting up early is somewhat in your control, but it gets a lot easier if you have an energy drink at 4am.
There's the theory (see the book by Baumeister) that willpower is like a muscle. It can both get tired and be trained. So the right mindset might not be "I will be disciplined today" – because you will fail and feel bad about it as you would fail if you just decided to lift that huge boulder. But if you chose to expend your willpower on something small but challenging, you may be able to train it and, after a while, be able to lift that heavy boulder.
Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline
#40This is probably the best post to hit HN all month. It's a thing that I notice over and over again, the ability to execute and persevere is strongly correlated with individuals that show (self)discipline. The ability to get out of bed (even when you don't want to) to work real hard (even when faced with a hundred or more distractions, or on something that you may not even like) and the ability to keep a long term goa…
Do you know of any adults who have successfully cultivated discipline? Based on those I've known since elementary school and still know today, perhaps 80% of the discipline I see in people can be explained by how much discipline they had at 10 years of age.
Well, that's in line with the marshmallow experiment.