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Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

nytimes.com

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Re: Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

#21

Post by eigenvector »

Can students have too much tech? Probably not. TV didn't ruin kids, and neither will the Internet. But this article is completely correct that more technology is not a panacea. Putting more technology into classrooms does not, by itself, improve learning outcomes.

Science and engineering, at the university level, are still largely taught the same way they have been for 100 years. This has not hampered the ability of engineers to dream up and create amazing and innovative products, nor the ability of mathematicians and scientists to push the boundaries of their respective fields. If (when) an engineering student takes a course on differential equations and doesn't grasp the material well enough to apply it to their future work, that's much more likely to be because:

a) They didn't understand how these concepts would be applied to practical engineering work and thus failed to apply themselves; or b) They found lectures difficult to follow and didn't have any resources to fall back on (e.g. professor office hours; teaching assistants)

not c) There wasn't enough technology in the classroom

Technology is needed for vocational training - whatever technology would be used to do the job needs to be present in the classroom. But in primary/secondary school and university, you need to teach fundamental, abstract skills and a chalkboard is perfectly adequate for that.

Re: Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

#23

Post by DrewRWx »

analog31 wrote: post #17
aswanson wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The computer is the "distraction machine." Dead on. It's evolved to that point even for those of us that started in the 80s. Nothing but bright shiny things...a click away.

I suggested an idea to my son, who struggles greatly with the distraction machine. Even just having Microsoft Word open is bad enough because there are so many fonts, settings, the help system, and so forth. This, compounded by a bit of writers block, and probably the inherent boredom of the work. I proposed to set up a Linux system with all apps disabled save for a plain text editor. I told him that it's not a punis…

Depending on your son's age the Alpha Smart Neo (despite being discontinued) might make sense as an extremely bare bones word processor. I used an earlier model when I was in grade school and it was convenient for busting out first drafts and some light editing. The trick of the device, at least back then, was that it would present as a keyboard to transfer the text to a computer.

Re: Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

#25

Post by ht_th »

analog31 wrote: post #17
aswanson wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The computer is the "distraction machine." Dead on. It's evolved to that point even for those of us that started in the 80s. Nothing but bright shiny things...a click away.

I suggested an idea to my son, who struggles greatly with the distraction machine. Even just having Microsoft Word open is bad enough because there are so many fonts, settings, the help system, and so forth. This, compounded by a bit of writers block, and probably the inherent boredom of the work. I proposed to set up a Linux system with all apps disabled save for a plain text editor. I told him that it's not a punis…

Your example of MS Word is interesting. Not only are these "playable" features distracting, they don't help with learning to write non-trivial texts either. I'd like to see them use a simple semantical text editor where they indicate the structure of the text, which then is automatically formatted. Formatting then is not a seemingly integral part of writing anymore, but a separate task.

More importantly, I think, is that a lot of educators and parents seem to value "having fun" as an important characteristic of education. I am doing research on innovative mathematics education in primary school, and, when asking teachers to evaluate the lessons or instructional materials, they always point out how much fun the children had (compared to the usual instruction). If I asked further and inquire about the actual learning of the students, most teachers aren't able to express anything beyond the superficial, either related to class management or to regurgitating parts of the curriculum.

Re: Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

#26

Post by joncrocks »

ht_th wrote: post #25
analog31 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggested an idea to my son, who struggles greatly with the distraction machine. Even just having Microsoft Word open is bad enough because there are so many fonts, settings, the help system, and so forth. This, compounded by a bit of writers block, and probably the inherent boredom of the work. I proposed to set up a Linux system with all apps disabled save for a plain text editor. I told him that it's not a punis…

Your example of MS Word is interesting. Not only are these "playable" features distracting, they don't help with learning to write non-trivial texts either. I'd like to see them use a simple semantical text editor where they indicate the structure of the text, which then is automatically formatted. Formatting then is not a seemingly integral part of writing anymore, but a separate task. More importantly, I think, is…

FWIW, this is what a LaTeX editor might give you. You write paragraphs of text, with some tags to indicate the semantics of the text, and converting that into 'pretty' text on a page is (generally) a second step.

Re: Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

#27

Post by ht_th »

joncrocks wrote: post #26
ht_th wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your example of MS Word is interesting. Not only are these "playable" features distracting, they don't help with learning to write non-trivial texts either. I'd like to see them use a simple semantical text editor where they indicate the structure of the text, which then is automatically formatted. Formatting then is not a seemingly integral part of writing anymore, but a separate task. More importantly, I think, is…

FWIW, this is what a LaTeX editor might give you. You write paragraphs of text, with some tags to indicate the semantics of the text, and converting that into 'pretty' text on a page is (generally) a second step.

I was more thinking about something like LyX and hide the typesetting engine / markup language for a while. Although when children have experience with an editor like this, supporting them to learn something like HTML (of LaTeX) is probably a lot easier as they understand the concept of structural elements.

Re: Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

#28

Post by mercer »

microcolonel wrote: post #19

Who cares? Let them figure it out for themselves for once, self control is only learned through binging and gorging on the sweet stuff until it hurts. I loopholed my way out of school in grade 7, and for two years after that, I did nothing but watch anime, the crudest and sickest misogynist anime you could lay your eyes on; you would assume I learned nothing from that, but you'd be wrong. Turns out that if you watch…

Consider substance addiction. Being a heroin addict might actually teach you how to hide things, steal things, and stick needles into yourself without dying. And eventually you might clean up, 'grow' out of it and use what you've learned for good.

And yet I think most people would agree that prohibiting or strongly discouraging heroin use, at least by children, a good thing.

Obviously heroin is an extreme example. My point is that the things we enjoy lie on a continuum, and with some of these things it's good to discourage or even prohibit, and not 'let people figure it out for themselves', especially not at a young age.

Computer use probably covers most of this continuum. Non-stop candy-crush? Probably more on the bad side of things. Games that involve group activity (WoW, etc.)? Probably a lot better. Games that also involve creation and even 'programming' such as Minecraft? Even better.

When you let children do what they want, there's no guarantee that they will gravitate towards the good stuff in the same way that letting children eat what they want is unlikely to turn them into adults with healthy diets.

Finding the balance between letting children discover for themselves and strictly prohibiting their behavior is very tricky. And that's why it's good to care about these things and discuss them.

Re: Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

#29

Post by MarcScott »

ht_th wrote: post #25
analog31 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggested an idea to my son, who struggles greatly with the distraction machine. Even just having Microsoft Word open is bad enough because there are so many fonts, settings, the help system, and so forth. This, compounded by a bit of writers block, and probably the inherent boredom of the work. I proposed to set up a Linux system with all apps disabled save for a plain text editor. I told him that it's not a punis…

Your example of MS Word is interesting. Not only are these "playable" features distracting, they don't help with learning to write non-trivial texts either. I'd like to see them use a simple semantical text editor where they indicate the structure of the text, which then is automatically formatted. Formatting then is not a seemingly integral part of writing anymore, but a separate task. More importantly, I think, is…

The kids in my CS class use putty to access Ubuntu servers, then write up their coursework in markdown. The only way to view their formatted text is to look at the GitHub README.md files online.

As a result, there are very few distractions. They have putty and GitHub open on their screens, and nothing else.

Re: Can Students Have Too Much Tech?

#30

Post by Edmond »

analog31 wrote: post #10

I've got kids in middle and high school. And I worked in a large county educational computing facility in the early 80's, that had every kind of computer and piece of educational software for teachers to try out. My observations: 1. The computer is the "distraction machine." It is just vibrating with distractions. Even the supposedly educational websites have things that move, different colors, links, and so forth. K…

I agree with your points, especially #3. Unfortunately that type of technology doesn't actually get much love in education, the irony :)

Speaking of such software, I've built a ton of it:

www.jasymchat.com (a CAS with text chat built in.) www.appynotebook.com (Awesome digital binder) www.schoolnotez.com (static portable version of Appynotebook)

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