Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports • Hacker News Board

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#231

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:20 PM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #172

solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

I love playing sports and always have. But I have major issues with categorizing everyone who has issues with them as elitist. Some of us dislike them because they're destructive to society. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went to a high school where athletics were more important than academics, and not going to the football game was worth a couple nitpicked points off on your chemistry quiz or some teacher who bec…

[deleted]

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#232

Post by aaron-lebo » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:20 PM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #172

solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

I love playing sports and always have. But I have major issues with categorizing everyone who has issues with them as elitist. Some of us dislike them because they're destructive to society. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went to a high school where athletics were more important than academics, and not going to the football game was worth a couple nitpicked points off on your chemistry quiz or some teacher who bec…

High school athletics is a problem in some ways, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Robert Putnam is a political scientist of some renown. One of his major contributions was a study he did in Italy over 40 years. His question was why was government in in the north generally more efficient and just all around better than politics in the southern portion of the country.

His conclusion was that northern Italians were much more heavily involved in civic clubs like religious groups, labor unions, and ... soccer clubs, which created social capital, and horizontal networks, unlike the hierarchical networks in the south which created clientelism and gangs.

Sports fanhood and clubs may actually make democracy better. They certainly foster community. There are bigger problems in this country.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#233

Post by sanderjd » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:20 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #212

solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

I don't care about sports. If you start a conversation with me about sports, it'll be short. I'm not being mean to anyone who likes sports, I just don't care. You don't get to tell me that I'm wrong for not sharing your interest. Liking sports isn't obligatory.

The ability to talk to people about things that interest them but not yourself is a very important skill to cultivate. The intersection of yourself with "people worth knowing and talking to" is bigger than the intersection of yourself with "people who share your interests".

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#234

Post by Avshalom » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:20 PM UTC

mundizzle wrote: post #129

i always found Chomsky's take on sports to be quite interesting... "Take, say, sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it -- you know, it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. [audience laughs] That keeps them from worrying about -- [applause] keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might…

>> I suddenly asked myself at one point, why do I care if my high school team wins the football game? [laughter] I mean, I don't know anybody on the team, you know? [audience roars] I mean, they have nothing to do with me, I mean, why I am cheering for my team? It doesn't mean any -- it doesn't make sense.

The thing is though that applies to Odysseus, Hamlet, Charles Foster Kane... Narrative in general. Our investment in any form of entertainment is equally nonsensical.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#235

Post by tjradcliffe » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:20 PM UTC

benihana wrote: post #130

ska wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, disinterest and contempt are very different things. Saying "I'm not interested in X" has very different connotations from "I can't see why anybody is interested in X".

This article isn't talking about disinterest. It's talking about the contempt self proclaimed intellectuals have - not the "oh I don't really follow NFL" attitude, the "oh, you like sports? Here let me post the tim and eric sports video to show how disdainful I am of sports." You know the type, they think they're so clever calling sports terms by the wrong name. Really sticking it to society by saying things like, "y…

Have you considered the possibility that this overt faux-ignorance might be in response to a situation where:

a) everyone expects you to know the difference between a safety touch and a free safety

and

b) no one knows the difference between muonium and muonic hydrogen (a difference I myself just learned today)

and

c) if you do know the difference between muonium and muonic hydrogen you instantly get treated with contempt?

I'm not sure that this is the case, but having lived my whole life in a world that treats almost everything I care about with overt and sometimes violent contempt, I can certainly see people who care more about art, science, literature or poetry acting out a bit to give the rest of the world the feeling they have when they try to talk to anyone about anything that matters to them.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#236

Post by mindcrime » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:23 PM UTC

nlawalker wrote: post #12

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people" - Eleanor Roosevelt Sports, in the context of the article, is 100% people and events. I don't necessarily agree with the quote, I just wanted to point out that the idea expressed here is the same. I don't think that intellectuals (to use the author's term) are necessarily disinterested in sports in general. However, it makes sense t…

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people

What's the value in ideas unless the affect events or impact people? It's a nice pithy quote, but don't assign it any undue deference or respect.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#237

Post by FireBeyond » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:24 PM UTC

CocaKoala wrote: post #6

serve_yay wrote: post #2

Sports are so prevalent that if you're not interested, it must be an affect :) I can watch some sports for a while (basketball and football), but after a couple hours it gets pretty boring, plus I've probably had some beers so the combination tends to make me sleepy. It was exciting when I was in college and rooting for my team at the stadium and all that, but how people connect with teams outside of such a setting h…

It helps a lot if you have a friend who's really passionate about the sport; you can leech off of their passion until you develop some of your own. When I started dating the woman who would later be my wife, I would occasionally watch hockey games with her; she is from Detroit and grew up an ardent, passionate fan of the Red Wings. After a few games of her explaining the rules and strategy, telling me about the fanta…

Agreed. My girlfriend thought she'd never be into basketball. I asked her to watch a game with me, made a point of talking to her about what was going on, and some of the decisions being made. A few months later, she's as avid a fan as I am.

I have zero interest in baseball, not a huge interest in football, despite being in Seattle. But we find basketball a lot of fun and make the trip down to Portland about once a month or so to see the Trail Blazers play - a team that still tries to live the "Keep Portland weird" ethos.

What's intriguing, too, is that despite her dad's best efforts - he definitely sees himself, at least in his mind, as a counter culture revolutionary who despises professional sport as being "what the mindless drones pay attention to", our step-daughter, a seven year old who alternates between My Little Pony, Frozen, and being a self-avowed pacifist vegetarian, also loves and begs to go to games because of the atmosphere - somewhat made curious by the fact she has near zero interest in watching them on TV, but at the arena she is entirely involved, cheering, chanting, dancing, having a whole bunch of fun.

Which is what it should be about.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#238

Post by robg » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:25 PM UTC

mundizzle wrote: post #129

i always found Chomsky's take on sports to be quite interesting... "Take, say, sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it -- you know, it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. [audience laughs] That keeps them from worrying about -- [applause] keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might…

Funny how Chomskyan approaches to Linguistics and Syntax require their own indoctrination and belief system and "the most exotic information and understanding about all kind of arcane issues".

Meanwhile, statistical approaches continue to win in the real world.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#239

Post by Maascamp » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:25 PM UTC

nlawalker wrote: post #12

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people" - Eleanor Roosevelt Sports, in the context of the article, is 100% people and events. I don't necessarily agree with the quote, I just wanted to point out that the idea expressed here is the same. I don't think that intellectuals (to use the author's term) are necessarily disinterested in sports in general. However, it makes sense t…

The "intellectuals" who watch sports are interested in strategy. This encompasses on field strategy, personnel choices, and beyond.

The fact that you ignored (or are ignorant of) this side of sports tells me that you've not actually had much practice "making conversation or building rapport" around sports.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#240

Post by FireBeyond » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:26 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #204

FireBeyond wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being the parent made a valid point that you're not even willing to entertain - the notion that people can enjoy a sport, at the highest level, without enjoying the crass commercialization that might accompany it. But you couldn't respond without an indictment of how brainwashed he is, in your opinion. I love basketball. I grew up playing and refereeing it. I lost interest for about a decade, because t…

"But you couldn't respond without an indictment of how brainwashed he is, in your opinion." I encourage you to quote that part of my comment. For bonus points, quote the part where I said I can't understand why people enjoy sports.

"That's nice. What other corporate products must I consume in order to be a validated member of your social caste?"

Go ahead, say, with a straight face, that such a remark was not effectively a paraphrasing of what I said and was a non-loaded question asked with sincerity. To claim that you were not implying some corporate brainwashing in what you said is, frankly, disingenuous.