How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak • Hacker News Board

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#21

Post by freehunter » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:19 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #4

Trying to pin the blame on the Amish doesn't seem right. Sure they weren't vaccinated but they are also less educated and have much, much less access to information on health than us. The 'informed' members of society who choose not to vaccinate are the real problem, otherwise the disease would have been contained to a small community of people. These informed individuals have no excuse. Take the latest outbreak for…

>Sure they weren't vaccinated but they are also less educated and have much, much less access to information on health than us.

This is by conscious choice, not by any necessity. They have access to all of the health information anyone else has, and they consciously choose to ignore it. I'm not making a judgment call on their society, I live in a heavily Amish area and they're mostly great people, but saying we can't blame them because they choose not to follow modern health standards until it's too late is just passing the buck.

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#22

Post by mrfusion » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:22 PM UTC

I think a lot of anti-vax stuff might be fixed with a compelling documentary. Vaccines need their own "Blackfish" documentary. Simply producing that one vivid, compelling movie is now completely changing how whales and dolphins are kept at aquariums. The power of a well produced documentary is really unbelievable.

It makes sense. People are visual creatures, and natural story tellers (and listeners) so sometimes showing the horrors of these issues and weaving it into a story is the best way to convince large amounts of people and bring attention to an issue.

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#23

Post by moogleii » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:23 PM UTC

Did the missionary eschew modern technology in order to get to the Philippines?

Got it guys, the answer is no. They use technology when it suits them.

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#24

Post by panopticon » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:24 PM UTC

stelonix wrote: post #17

skynetv2 wrote: post #3

it breaks my heart to see so many "adults" making "informed decisions" about NOT vaccinating their children. They should really go live in undeveloped countries where vaccines are scarce and unavailable to experience first hand what lack of vaccinations actually means, what the implications are for the general population. I grew up, fortunately with out any problems, seeing so many kids suffering from polio, handicap…

While I agree I'd do anything to help my child, I also realize it's not up to me or most importantly, the government to dictate how other parents should raise their children. The right to raise your child the way you see fit, obviously without any major abuse is an universal right any parent has and it's above any social construct. Abuse, in this context, should be real abuse, which means physical or psychological vi…

The problem is that choosing to not vaccinating your children has an effect on the people around you. I'm all for raising children how the parent sees fit, but you're talking about a public health issue. Whether or not little Timmy learns about sharing is apples and oranges to spreading disease.

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#25

Post by larsiusprime » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

moogleii wrote: post #23

Did the missionary eschew modern technology in order to get to the Philippines? Got it guys, the answer is no. They use technology when it suits them.

You do not understand the Amish. They do not have some simplistic "all modern technology is bad" ban. They selectively use some modern technologies, and eschew others.

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#26

Post by herge » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #7

k-mcgrady wrote: post #4

Trying to pin the blame on the Amish doesn't seem right. Sure they weren't vaccinated but they are also less educated and have much, much less access to information on health than us. The 'informed' members of society who choose not to vaccinate are the real problem, otherwise the disease would have been contained to a small community of people. These informed individuals have no excuse. Take the latest outbreak for…

Anyone who is not vaccinated and goes around in public is a danger. It doesn't matter why they aren't, the why doesn't make them more or less of a danger. They are all dangers to society.

So are smokers and people who are overweight. Your point?

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#27

Post by robert_tweed » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:29 PM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #22

I think a lot of anti-vax stuff might be fixed with a compelling documentary. Vaccines need their own "Blackfish" documentary. Simply producing that one vivid, compelling movie is now completely changing how whales and dolphins are kept at aquariums. The power of a well produced documentary is really unbelievable. It makes sense. People are visual creatures, and natural story tellers (and listeners) so sometimes show…

Absolutely. And it should explain herd immunity very clearly, a bit like this demo:

http://op12no2.me/toys/herd/

People need to stop believing that it's a personal choice for them alone. That is no more true than if they were to go around blowing cigarette smoke into the faces of other people. It's anti-social behaviour and even worse, the consequences are potentially deadly.

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#28

Post by saltysugar » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:32 PM UTC

larsiusprime wrote: post #25

moogleii wrote: post #23

Did the missionary eschew modern technology in order to get to the Philippines? Got it guys, the answer is no. They use technology when it suits them.

You do not understand the Amish. They do not have some simplistic "all modern technology is bad" ban. They selectively use some modern technologies, and eschew others.

Anything that's convenient for them, I guess?

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#29

Post by stephencanon » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:34 PM UTC

stelonix wrote: post #17

skynetv2 wrote: post #3

it breaks my heart to see so many "adults" making "informed decisions" about NOT vaccinating their children. They should really go live in undeveloped countries where vaccines are scarce and unavailable to experience first hand what lack of vaccinations actually means, what the implications are for the general population. I grew up, fortunately with out any problems, seeing so many kids suffering from polio, handicap…

While I agree I'd do anything to help my child, I also realize it's not up to me or most importantly, the government to dictate how other parents should raise their children. The right to raise your child the way you see fit, obviously without any major abuse is an universal right any parent has and it's above any social construct. Abuse, in this context, should be real abuse, which means physical or psychological vi…

It's (partially) up to the government to protect other people's children from your recklessness. Saying that not vaccinating is a choice is like saying that driving drunk is a choice. It's literally true, but the government has a valid interest in curbing both behaviors.

Re: How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak

#30

Post by moogleii » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 3:36 PM UTC

larsiusprime wrote: post #25

moogleii wrote: post #23

Did the missionary eschew modern technology in order to get to the Philippines? Got it guys, the answer is no. They use technology when it suits them.

You do not understand the Amish. They do not have some simplistic "all modern technology is bad" ban. They selectively use some modern technologies, and eschew others.

Hence, why I asked, smarty.