Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

javascriptkicks.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 138 posts

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#81

Post by artmageddon »

amsheehan wrote: post #55
JanezStupar wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, it is incompatible with the whole open web stack. You cannot use Bootstrap with it. And if you decide to move off Angular, you are going to be in a world of pain. Second and worst of all - it is a monolithic framework. As long as you just do things the "Angular Way" - you are fine. If you want to change or override something, you are in a world of pain. If you are learning Angular - you are hardly learning J…

1: You shouldn't be using bootstrap, even though you can with angular. 2: What do you need to do in the front end that can't be accomplished the 'angular way'? I'm not sure you understand what monolithic really means. The beauty part of angular is that you can use it as little or as much as you'd like in your web applications. 3: Angular 2 is going to be preeeetty much only ecma6. Also, understanding angular means yo…

What's wrong with Bootstrap?

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#82

Post by danabramov »

engendered wrote: post #44
kuni-toko-tachi wrote: post #9

The central problem with Angular is what is says about the software industry in general - that a framework so fundamentally and ridiculously flawed could invite such wide appeal suggests that many people have absolutely no idea what they are doing. The thousand monkeys approach to engineering has wide implications for security and safety of systems that we rely on. There is simply no way that you can say that you kno…

The central problem with Angular is what is says about the software industry in general - that a framework so fundamentally and ridiculously flawed could invite such wide appeal suggests that many people have absolutely no idea what they are doing. I have yet to see an Angular project that doesn't qualify as tiny . For that purpose -- banging out some internal CRUDish app -- if it allows people to create working succ…

>One of the most common features pushed by just about every framework (just saw it about React yesterday) is desperately, and leakily, trying to abstract Javascript into some sort of classic OOP language.

You missed the point of yesterday's React announcement.

It's not at all about OOP.

See this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8959691

https://twitter.com/swannodette/status/560554408782864384

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#83

Post by logn »

jere wrote: post #52

>Many would not even see the problem here, and just as children don't know cars can hurt, juniors don't know just how destructive this anti-pattern can be to performance, separation of concerns and long term code base maintenance. Yup, I don't get it. I guess not only am I eternally doomed to be a junior dev but also am being compared to a child, a monkey typing at a typewriter, but also someone who doesn't know JS a…

I don't know Angular at all. But it appears that the example with $scope is not respecting the MVC design pattern. It's all been flattened and merged. The controller should only update the model. And the view should only get state from the model. In the example, the controller wraps the model and presents itself to the view as the model and controller. So now to write a test of the view, you can't just create some dummy model, you have to create a mocked up controller.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#84

Post by engendered »

danabramov wrote: post #82
engendered wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central problem with Angular is what is says about the software industry in general - that a framework so fundamentally and ridiculously flawed could invite such wide appeal suggests that many people have absolutely no idea what they are doing. I have yet to see an Angular project that doesn't qualify as tiny . For that purpose -- banging out some internal CRUDish app -- if it allows people to create working succ…

>One of the most common features pushed by just about every framework (just saw it about React yesterday) is desperately, and leakily, trying to abstract Javascript into some sort of classic OOP language. You missed the point of yesterday's React announcement. It's not at all about OOP. See this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8959691 https://twitter.com/swannodette/status/560554408782864384

You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. I said that I saw it yesterday about React. You know, in their announcement where they outright said -

"JavaScript originally didn't have a built-in class system. Every popular framework built their own, and so did we."

I was not making a comment on any new development or change in direction, just that React (a tool I don't use) admitted to also jumping on the pretend-OOP thing.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#85

Post by moron4hire »

> the second camp, those that said I was just spouting FUD because I didn't explain myself in detail, which surprised me a bit because those are developers who presumably have been working on Angular and in my opinion should already know about the pitfalls and their effect on juniors.

I have come to learn that the majority of people who say they work in a particular system have actually only ever dabbled in it.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#86

Post by ExpiredLink »

sfjailbird wrote: post #18
ceeK wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat assumed that the 500 error was evidence of the post's title, heh.

Seriously. Why do you need to run a shitload of JavaScript just to display a damn article.

Bad habits. Those JavaScript kids nowadays ...

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#87

Post by rdtsc »

I am not a web developer but I have been trying to keep up with the technology.

I tried learning Angular because people at work started using and hyping it beyond measure. So I thought 'ok' this got to be really good stuff.

And it was good, _if_ experienced people held my hand. Otherwise I got lost in a soup of what seemed like unnecessary terminology -- $scopes, controllers, digest cycles, dependency injections, directives, and so on.

It kind of brought back memories of first generations of Enterprise Java frameworks (you know the factoryfactorymanager joke...)

So I have seen Angular work easily for already experienced devs who knew web front-end development very well. For me, what I really like is React. Ever since watching Peter Hunt's video one or two years ago, the idea of the virtual DOM and how events propagate made sense and was small enough to fit in my brain. I was able to go through some tutorial and do a few toy project in my spare time.

Anyway, if you care for another data point, there it is.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#88

Post by IgorPartola »

JanezStupar wrote: post #37
kyberias wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rather surprisingly and unnecessary harsh comment. Would you like to explain why do you think Angular is so flawed?

For one, it is incompatible with the whole open web stack. You cannot use Bootstrap with it. And if you decide to move off Angular, you are going to be in a world of pain. Second and worst of all - it is a monolithic framework. As long as you just do things the "Angular Way" - you are fine. If you want to change or override something, you are in a world of pain. If you are learning Angular - you are hardly learning J…

No Boostrap? The project I recently worked on must not have happened, and it must have all been a dream...

Are there non-monolithic frameworks? I believe that's the main value proposition of using a framework: you don't need to think about how to organize things because it's the framework's job to provide you with square and round holes, all you have to do is provide the square and round pegs. I am not saying that framework is better than N libraries. I am saying that that is the framework's value proposition. Honestly, I tried helping someone with a Backbone project a while ago. The first thing you have to do when using Backbone is apparently learn a dozen or two of really random names (I swear JS project names are generated as `englishNouns[randInt(englishNouns.length)]`).

The knowledge gained from using Angular is as transferrable as the knowledge of jQuery: it's not straight JS, but if you understand what it does under the hood you can switch to a different library rather quickly.

Lastly, Angular has something that many other frameworks don't: a commercial backer. This means that it's not likely to just bitrot on GitHub for years when the original author loses interest.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#89

Post by city41 »

I find it interesting that most negative Angular articles are so vague. Why is it so tough to articulate what is wrong with Angular? I agree Angular is not the best, but I don't have such strong negative feelings for it. I've used it successfully in the past and as long as you keep things simple and don't go overboard with all that it offers, you can create a decent website with it.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#90

Post by sfeng »

crdoconnor wrote: post #75
bphogan wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article only did one thing for me - demonstrate that the author himself doesn't understand Angular or the problems. I don't know Angular that well myself, but the author knew anything more than I did, he'd be able to spend the extra 30 seconds to write the refactored code. Dismiss this article. It's a waste of time and energy. In fact, I really shouldn't even be wasting my time commenting on it.

>This article only did one thing for me - demonstrate that the author himself doesn't understand Angular or the problems. Seems pretty evident from the horrible jankiness of this blog. Heavy as shit and it loads on the 5th try.

Try to load it on mobile. What a train wreck.
Post reply on HN