Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to be in favour of the current war on drugs to be in favour of heroin being illegal - and this is key selling heroin being illegal. Even Portugal, held up as the example of decriminalization only decriminalized possession not distribution. Being a heroin addict should be treated as a social/medical problem and people given all the help they can to get clean, but we absolutely shouldn't be encouraging p…
I think you've struck upon the fundamental issue when it comes to substance legalization: we've made the U.S. government the arbiter of safety. People think, "If it's legal, it must be safe." That isn't a true statement even now, but it's the mindset people bring to discussions about decriminalization. Legalization does not need to mean "encouraging people to take it up." If we want to end the war on drugs, we need t…
A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
81–90 of 95 posts
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to be in favour of the current war on drugs to be in favour of heroin being illegal - and this is key selling heroin being illegal. Even Portugal, held up as the example of decriminalization only decriminalized possession not distribution. Being a heroin addict should be treated as a social/medical problem and people given all the help they can to get clean, but we absolutely shouldn't be encouraging p…
Heroin + other drugs combined are responsible for a high percentage of all drug related deaths. You can make the argument that there's not much difference, because people are dumb, and I'd probably agree with you though.
Best i recall, the major reason for heroin deaths are that people overdose.
This either because they don't know the purity of the substance, or they have tried to get clean on their own and are relapsing.
The latter is particularly insidious, as the person will set up the dosage based on habit while their body has lost its resistance to the drug.
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd be interested to see some stats on IV heroin use and rate of addiction if you've got some
why would the route of administration have anything to do with that? it's the same substance hitting the same receptors. every single addiction takes effort and time to develope, even heroin. anyway, google 'heroin + medical use' and be very suprised.
I find myself wondering how someone would go directly form clean to "lets stick this needled in my arm". Likely by that time the person is already craving it after having had it several times via other means.
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#84It reads more like "A heroin dealer tells the silk road jury what the prosecutor damned well told him to say" "Duch also described how the Silk Road’s customer base allowed him to reach buyers who he believed wouldn’t have otherwise had access to his product. " ergo, one of their arguments is going to be that SR created a drug market, and made addicts of innocent children who were looking for my little pony pictures…
> ergo, one of their arguments is going to be that SR created a drug market, and made addicts of innocent children who were looking for my little pony pictures and got tricked into taking smack. Doesn't that seem reasonable? Not in the extreme form you've taken at least, but in a milder form. It seems reasonable to me that a number of people who otherwise would not try heroin due to lack of access might try it if get…
But that's the thing - I don't believe that it did increase access in any substantive fashion - you can go virtually anywhere on the planet, and find someone selling the usual suspects. From those who I know who used SR (fully aware this is apocryphal!), usage actually generally decreased, as rather than buying large quantities infrequently from a local dealer (less risk), folks would buy smaller quantities more often, and thus moderate their consumption.
The only things which certainly proliferated more readily as a result of SR would be RCs (Research Chemicals), which your shady park dealer does not usually carry.
Either way, I reckon that this argument will be pivotal in their case, and they will, over the course of the trial, present hockey-stick graphs showing that SR has turned the entire planet into heroin users.
So - I don't reckon this will have increased the number of people taking drugs. I would rather think that it may have encouraged people to experiment more than they otherwise would have due to increased access, but only in the case of people who are prior users of recreational substances - and as above, if anything, it reduced consumption in areas where a "street" supply already existed.
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> From what I understand, heroin when injected is so addictive that using it even once can put you on a path you never would have gone anywhere near. It takes rational thought out of the occasion, changes your personality and your goals - your life becomes about getting your next fix and you'll do anything to get it. All bullshit. The vast majority of people who try heroin (even multiple times) do not get addicted.
I'd be interested to see some stats on IV heroin use and rate of addiction if you've got some
Me too, but unfortunately it seems to be almost impossible to find unbiased information (almost everything I found was blatant drug-war propaganda with absolutely no science backing it up)
I did find 1 interesting paper on occasional and controlled heroin use: http://www.jrf.org.uk/system/files/1859354254.pdf
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But in terms of harm reduction Silk Road was pretty awesome (fwiw, I never used the service). Not only did it derisk buying and selling drugs... I don't see how it follows that derisking drug sales necessarily didn't increase harm. Yes, if you were selling drugs on Silk Road you were less likely to get into a violent confrontation with a client. Yes, if you were buying drugs on Silk Road you were less likely to get…
I like how you conveniently ignored the parent's comments about cartels. Also I don't understand the use of "pseudo-libertarian" here? Drug usage is a personal decision and it's none of state's business. That is the very definition of libertarianism. It has nothing to do with Silk Road but since you brought it up, legalising drug usage is for the greater good. You see the real danger does not originate from violent c…
> Drug usage is a personal decision and it's none of state's business.
I agree with this up to the point where drug use becomes drug addiction. Of course this doesn't happen to everyone who uses drugs recreationally, but if it does, then it's not so much a decision but a relentless compulsion that thoroughly decimates one's freedom to choose.
Whether it's the state's business or not, I suppose that depends on whether one feels the state has some responsibility towards the mental and physical health of its citizens. I'm very much in favour of harm reduction programmes for drug addicts, rather than the prevailing trend of terribly harsh punishment. Some may feel that this sort of thing is too paternalistic and interfering but it's certainly better than imprisonment.
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#87It reads more like "A heroin dealer tells the silk road jury what the prosecutor damned well told him to say" "Duch also described how the Silk Road’s customer base allowed him to reach buyers who he believed wouldn’t have otherwise had access to his product. " ergo, one of their arguments is going to be that SR created a drug market, and made addicts of innocent children who were looking for my little pony pictures…
Duch himself was initially addicted to painkillers and due to the price and lack of access to them took up heroin. He probably did reach a lot of painkiller addicts that wouldn't have bought heroin without his aid. The economic proof of this is the huge markup he added (100%). If heroin was so available on the street they would have just bought it themselves. Now in a better world, the opioid addicts would have quit…
No - the economic proof isn't proof whatsoever - he was buying in bulk from a mid/top dealer, and 100% markup is actually pretty moderate when dealing in controlled substances - consider also that your oh-so-friendly shady dude on a corner is cutting everything with everything, which is also markup, whereas SR dealers did not, if they wanted to stay in business.
Folks bought from SR not because of increased availability, but due to decreased risk. Less interaction with dealers, less chance of law enforcement involvement, and you know what you're buying.
Heroin isn't something that people just one day wake up and decide to do. It spreads socially - the vast, vast, VAST majority of users ended up so because someone they know uses.
I live in a small, conservative, "safe" city - and I could pop out and come back with a sack of MDMA, weed/hash and heroin, if I so chose - but I don't.
I promise you, this shit is everywhere. You just don't see it unless you either go looking or it's shown to you.
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
why would the route of administration have anything to do with that? it's the same substance hitting the same receptors. every single addiction takes effort and time to develope, even heroin. anyway, google 'heroin + medical use' and be very suprised.
Route of administration changes how quickly, how hard and in what way drugs hit you. For example, someone could rub some coke on their gums and have a numb mouth and be slightly more alert, or snort the same amount and get a rush.
I think you're mistaken. While the first part is certainly true - I remain doubtful about the implication for addictive potential of a drug - the second part is a rather bad example:
Both in your nose and in your mouth the drug is absorbed into the bloodstream via a mucous membrane. The reason you don't see a lot of people putting large doses of cocaine on their gums is largely practical... same thing for mdma for example, just the other way around.
/edit The coke-numbs-your-gums part is supposed to be a test for the quality of the product, easily faked though.
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you've struck upon the fundamental issue when it comes to substance legalization: we've made the U.S. government the arbiter of safety. People think, "If it's legal, it must be safe." That isn't a true statement even now, but it's the mindset people bring to discussions about decriminalization. Legalization does not need to mean "encouraging people to take it up." If we want to end the war on drugs, we need t…
Don't forget marketing. Alcohol is marketed extensively by the industry despite the associated problems. A legal heroin industry would have a huge incentive to market heroin.
I have fairly extreme views on marketing in general, but I don't think its existence contradicts anything I said above.
Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I like how you conveniently ignored the parent's comments about cartels. Also I don't understand the use of "pseudo-libertarian" here? Drug usage is a personal decision and it's none of state's business. That is the very definition of libertarianism. It has nothing to do with Silk Road but since you brought it up, legalising drug usage is for the greater good. You see the real danger does not originate from violent c…
> Drug usage is a personal decision and it's none of state's business. Not unless the drug has been empirically found to have a high probability of harming the individual and a high probability of spreading through communities. Then it's very much state's business because it becomes a matter of social preservation. > I don't understand the use of "pseudo-libertarian". "Pseudo-libertarian" is the kind of libertarian t…
Yea we get it. Drug are bad mmmkay. The fact is that the drug war has done nothing to reduce their use, and it provides a huge source of revenue for actual violent criminals.