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Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

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Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#71

The central problem with Angular is what is says about the software industry in general - that a framework so fundamentally and ridiculously flawed could invite such wide appeal suggests that many people have absolutely no idea what they are doing. The thousand monkeys approach to engineering has wide implications for security and safety of systems that we rely on. There is simply no way that you can say that you kno…

So when you see everyone flock to a framework you deem poorly implemented, the solution to the dissonance is to call everyone stupid, instead of admitting maybe there's some angle you're missing?

I've been doing JS since Netscape and Angular since before Google. I support Angular. Guess I don't know anything about JavaScript though. Nothing.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#72

The central problem with Angular is what is says about the software industry in general - that a framework so fundamentally and ridiculously flawed could invite such wide appeal suggests that many people have absolutely no idea what they are doing. The thousand monkeys approach to engineering has wide implications for security and safety of systems that we rely on. There is simply no way that you can say that you kno…

This is a rather surprisingly and unnecessary harsh comment. Would you like to explain why do you think Angular is so flawed?

It is an unnecessarily harsh comment and I wouldn't have dignified it with a request for further clarification.

I'm also confused how something like that is a top comment on HN and makes me wonder what is so different about me and the everybody else who felt the need to upvote that comment.

Makes me think back about that dev Klabnik made cry after making fun their open source project. I can't get over that last sentence of kuni-toko-tachi's comment.

> There is simply no way that you can say that you know Javascript and at the same time support Angular. None.

How does someone say something like that and not feel like an asshole afterwards.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#73
post #52

>Many would not even see the problem here, and just as children don't know cars can hurt, juniors don't know just how destructive this anti-pattern can be to performance, separation of concerns and long term code base maintenance. Yup, I don't get it. I guess not only am I eternally doomed to be a junior dev but also am being compared to a child, a monkey typing at a typewriter, but also someone who doesn't know JS a…

The thing that struck me about it was that the $scope.displayName() function shadows itself by setting $scope.displayName again:

        $scope.displayName = function () {
            if ($scope.anonymous()) {
                return;
            }
            $scope.displayName = $scope.name;
        };
I have no idea how that's related to Angular, though. It looks like it's just bad programming practice.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#74
post #52

>Many would not even see the problem here, and just as children don't know cars can hurt, juniors don't know just how destructive this anti-pattern can be to performance, separation of concerns and long term code base maintenance. Yup, I don't get it. I guess not only am I eternally doomed to be a junior dev but also am being compared to a child, a monkey typing at a typewriter, but also someone who doesn't know JS a…

The thing that struck me about it was that the $scope.displayName() function shadows itself by setting $scope.displayName again: $scope.displayName = function () { if ($scope.anonymous()) { return; } $scope.displayName = $scope.name; }; I have no idea how that's related to Angular, though. It looks like it's just bad programming practice.

I agree completely. You wouldn't do this any ANY language let alone Angular. However, I get he is trying to make a point that junior developers are using the $scope too trivially therefore causing slow performances, but this can be easily overcome by just incorporating better conventions into your codebase.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#75
post #69
post #52

>Many would not even see the problem here, and just as children don't know cars can hurt, juniors don't know just how destructive this anti-pattern can be to performance, separation of concerns and long term code base maintenance. Yup, I don't get it. I guess not only am I eternally doomed to be a junior dev but also am being compared to a child, a monkey typing at a typewriter, but also someone who doesn't know JS a…

This article only did one thing for me - demonstrate that the author himself doesn't understand Angular or the problems. I don't know Angular that well myself, but the author knew anything more than I did, he'd be able to spend the extra 30 seconds to write the refactored code. Dismiss this article. It's a waste of time and energy. In fact, I really shouldn't even be wasting my time commenting on it.

>This article only did one thing for me - demonstrate that the author himself doesn't understand Angular or the problems.

Seems pretty evident from the horrible jankiness of this blog. Heavy as shit and it loads on the 5th try.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#76
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a criticism of big monolyth frameworks. We have had shit like this circa 2005 - when jQuery started hitting the mainstream. And monolyths had to cede their ground to small specialized frameworks that would be built for fast deprecation and mixing with other stuff. Sort of the UNIX way. Angular is causing just as much damage as GWT, ASP and others did in their day. IMHO.

Have you built any production apps with Angular?

Are you trying to pull a No True Scotsman on me?

No I haven't and will refrain from doing so. Although I am tempted to invest more of my time in it, because I can smell some phat consulting opportunities from everybody and his dog having a big, slow, badly architectured Angular app and searching for an "Angular Expert" to help them get their shit in order.

However I am not ignorant about it I have invested nearly a month into it and worked on implementing my usual TODO Demo App, which I gave up on eventually, because it became clear to me that it has nothing to offer that I would want from it.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#77
post #58

(sorry if this comes off a bit snarky) "Overuse of the eventing system ($watch, $emit, $broadcast) leading to performance problems and memory leaks and not realizing it or being able to debug it" Blindly overusing most features in frameworks or libraries can cause performance problems. Which memory leaks? "Writing Controllers and Directives that take dependencies which make them nearly impossible to test." Doesn't de…

"Blindly overusing most features in frameworks or libraries can cause performance problems. Which memory leaks?" Binding to event emitted by an object on another object, then deleting the receiver, can cause a memory leak if you don't unbind first.

True, but hardly unique to Angular.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#78
post #7

The page is not loading properly for me (on a Windows laptop with Chrome). When I use the given link I get "500 - InternalServerError Something went horribly, horribly wrong while servicing your request. We're sorry :-(" and when I go via javascriptkicks.com it keeps loading and never completes.

Ironically, it works if you disable Javascript.

edit: seems to be working anyway.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#79
post #52

>Many would not even see the problem here, and just as children don't know cars can hurt, juniors don't know just how destructive this anti-pattern can be to performance, separation of concerns and long term code base maintenance. Yup, I don't get it. I guess not only am I eternally doomed to be a junior dev but also am being compared to a child, a monkey typing at a typewriter, but also someone who doesn't know JS a…

Well, there's a good reason why $scope and controllers will disappear with Angular 2.0. $scope is convenient, but also a massive source of problems. There's workarounds for those problems, but those workarounds wouldn't even be necessary if this aspect of Angular had been designed better.

Angular has some great stuff, and some really necessary ideas and principles that were sorely needed in Javascript. I love working with it, most of the time. But it also has some serious design errors.

Re: Why junior developers are learning bad habits from Angular

#80
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a criticism of big monolyth frameworks. We have had shit like this circa 2005 - when jQuery started hitting the mainstream. And monolyths had to cede their ground to small specialized frameworks that would be built for fast deprecation and mixing with other stuff. Sort of the UNIX way. Angular is causing just as much damage as GWT, ASP and others did in their day. IMHO.

Have you built any production apps with Angular?

Are you willing to share a link to any that you have built?
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