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A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

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Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#71

Post by Alex3917 »

tP5n wrote: post #64
afro88 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to see some stats on IV heroin use and rate of addiction if you've got some

why would the route of administration have anything to do with that? it's the same substance hitting the same receptors. every single addiction takes effort and time to develope, even heroin. anyway, google 'heroin + medical use' and be very suprised.

The likelihood that someone will become addicted to a substance is actually much more affected by the route of administration than the substance itself. Addiction primarily happens as a result of people linking an action (e.g. taking a drug) with a reward, and the less time there is in between taking the drug and it taking effect, the more powerful that connection.

In terms of addictive potential for any given drug:

smoking > injecting > snorting > eating > topical

If you were to actually compare drinking crack with drinking coffee, the addictiveness of both would be identical.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#73

Post by jeffreyrogers »

madaxe_again wrote: post #51

It reads more like "A heroin dealer tells the silk road jury what the prosecutor damned well told him to say" "Duch also described how the Silk Road’s customer base allowed him to reach buyers who he believed wouldn’t have otherwise had access to his product. " ergo, one of their arguments is going to be that SR created a drug market, and made addicts of innocent children who were looking for my little pony pictures…

> ergo, one of their arguments is going to be that SR created a drug market, and made addicts of innocent children who were looking for my little pony pictures and got tricked into taking smack.

Doesn't that seem reasonable? Not in the extreme form you've taken at least, but in a milder form. It seems reasonable to me that a number of people who otherwise would not try heroin due to lack of access might try it if getting it becomes convenient enough.

It's naive to assume that just because getting drugs is relatively easy that making it easier won't increase the number of people who decide to use drugs. Just as it is wrong for prosecutors to bend reality to fit their interpretation of the facts, it is wrong of those in favor of drug reform to bend reality to fit their interpretation. I would love to see more reasonable drug laws, and I'm probably far more libertarian than most in what changes I'd like to see, however, I recognize that by improving access to drugs you probably will also increase the number of people who do drugs, all else remaining constant.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#74

Post by kardos »

xtian wrote: post #58
cmdkeen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be in favour of the current war on drugs to be in favour of heroin being illegal - and this is key selling heroin being illegal. Even Portugal, held up as the example of decriminalization only decriminalized possession not distribution. Being a heroin addict should be treated as a social/medical problem and people given all the help they can to get clean, but we absolutely shouldn't be encouraging p…

I think you've struck upon the fundamental issue when it comes to substance legalization: we've made the U.S. government the arbiter of safety. People think, "If it's legal, it must be safe." That isn't a true statement even now, but it's the mindset people bring to discussions about decriminalization. Legalization does not need to mean "encouraging people to take it up." If we want to end the war on drugs, we need t…

Don't forget marketing. Alcohol is marketed extensively by the industry despite the associated problems. A legal heroin industry would have a huge incentive to market heroin.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#75

Post by jeffreyrogers »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #43
hessenwolf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting, as it turns my viewpoint on its head. I firmly believed heroin addicts were all zombies. You are arguing they are quite completely saveable. It changes my view on whether it is useful to help somebody. Do you have any references for this?

I think you might be surprised by the number of functional heroin "addicts" there are. There are a lot of people holding down "good" jobs while using. I don't feel great about posting non-throway, but hey. My anecdata (10 > N It's a thing you can actually grow out of, too. The people who don't usually have other problems.

Yeah, I actually know of at least one doctor who was on heroin (while practicing). Started with an opiate (painkiller) addiction and then led to heroin. Actually, it's pretty common for people who've been prescribed painkillers to start using heroin once they can no longer get their painkiller prescriptions filled/represcribed.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#76

Post by dimitar »

madaxe_again wrote: post #51

It reads more like "A heroin dealer tells the silk road jury what the prosecutor damned well told him to say" "Duch also described how the Silk Road’s customer base allowed him to reach buyers who he believed wouldn’t have otherwise had access to his product. " ergo, one of their arguments is going to be that SR created a drug market, and made addicts of innocent children who were looking for my little pony pictures…

Duch himself was initially addicted to painkillers and due to the price and lack of access to them took up heroin. He probably did reach a lot of painkiller addicts that wouldn't have bought heroin without his aid. The economic proof of this is the huge markup he added (100%). If heroin was so available on the street they would have just bought it themselves.

Now in a better world, the opioid addicts would have quit and the government would have mitigated the issue by giving them methadone for free. But regardless of whether this is the case, he did cause harm to his clients and society as a whole by hooking up to a more dangerous drug while they were at a vulnerable state.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#77

Post by ericmuyser »

cryowaffle wrote: post #69
girvo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting off it was difficult. I couldn't have done it without the amazing support of my government, despite it's rather draconian drug laws. I've been clean for three years now. The impetus for getting off of it were the cost (I was using 1.5 grams per day), the illegality (I didn't want to risk my future any more). But, the key reason? I didn't want to take it any more. A well known fact among addict circles, is tha…

I see... at first I thought you were complimenting America's drug rehab programs and then I read "country like mine" and quickly realized my error.

Canada?

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#78

Post by digi_owl »

hessenwolf wrote: post #38
girvo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heroin is... Interesting. I was an addict for 6 years. I ran two businesses (one successfully), held down excellent jobs for amazing agencies, built cool stuff, had numerous relationships that were both good and bad. Most of heroin's issues arise because of its illegality, coupled with its price. I was spending $400 a day. It's nearly impossible to keep afloat with that sort of outgoing expense. Heroin also makes me…

This is interesting, as it turns my viewpoint on its head. I firmly believed heroin addicts were all zombies. You are arguing they are quite completely saveable. It changes my view on whether it is useful to help somebody. Do you have any references for this?

Reminds of an anecdote from when a needle room was opened in Oslo, Norway. Sure, they expected may homeless and such. But what they also got was people in suits driving fancy cars, that stopped by to do a dosage before heading to so big wig office or party.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#79

Post by digi_owl »

geographomics wrote: post #61
girvo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've shared my experiences a number of times, and you'd be amazed how many other programmers have contacted me to express their situation. "Functional" addicts are far more numerous than common knowledge would have you believe, but the stigma is so great that it's something that remains rather impossible to find out. Heres an interesting fact. About 23% of people who use heroin (not opiates in general, heroin specifi…

Your 23% statistic is very revealing; in recent years there's been a lot of research into the underlying neurobiology of addiction. Turns out that addicts are often quite predisposed to getting addicted, either through genetics (such as variants in the components of neurotransmitter systems) or their early environment. And through long-term changes in the brain from substance abuse - as an example, over-consuming alc…

I hold the suspicion that if you check up on most addicts of any kind, you will find someone that had social issues before touching drugs.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#80

Post by digi_owl »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #75
xyzzy123 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be surprised by the number of functional heroin "addicts" there are. There are a lot of people holding down "good" jobs while using. I don't feel great about posting non-throway, but hey. My anecdata (10 > N It's a thing you can actually grow out of, too. The people who don't usually have other problems.

Yeah, I actually know of at least one doctor who was on heroin (while practicing). Started with an opiate (painkiller) addiction and then led to heroin. Actually, it's pretty common for people who've been prescribed painkillers to start using heroin once they can no longer get their painkiller prescriptions filled/represcribed.

Given that Herion is pretty much distilled opium, that's not really a surprise.
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