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Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

fcc.gov

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Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#71

Post by natch »

I'm confused by page two of this. I understand that recent examples of blocking that came to light were in hotels and convention centers. So that's an example they've seen, I get that.

But then they have wording that suggests the rule only applies to commercial hotels and convention centers and the network operators for those commercial establishments. Is that really all it applies to?

Or does it apply to everybody? What about (sometimes nasty) local governments, nonprofits, individuals, tribal authorities, non-hotel and non-convention center commercial entities, and others?

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#72

Post by kps »

dsl wrote: post #66
ak217 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't jamming devices of that type illegal, as discussed elsewhere in the thread? And isn't what Cisco is doing by even manufacturing a device with that capability illegal, or at least cause for the FCC to ban its sales in the US?

Jamming is very different from exploiting a protocol flaw (which is basically what the rouge AP mitigation does).

‘Jamming’ and ‘exploiting a protocol flaw’ are both methods of interfering.

  > 47 U.S. Code § 333 - Willful or malicious interference
  >
  > No person shall willfully or maliciously interfere with
  > or cause interference to any radio communications of any
  > station licensed or authorized by or under this chapter
  > or operated by the United States Government.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#73

Post by nickhalfasleep »

Does anybody know of a good package that might allow one to notice rogue disassociate / disconnect packets when they are being used against you? It seems like something that would notice, and record the action might make a great way to tell when hotels (or other spaces) try this again.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#74

Post by konceptz »

anextio wrote: post #18
matthewmcg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting point. A Cisco page[1] discussing this feature says: "Containment can have legal implications when launched against neighboring networks. Ensure that the rogue device is within your network and poses a security risk before you launch the containment." [1] http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/docs/wireless/4400-seri... Cisco seems to think this is perfectly fine to do to rouge APs connected to an orga…

It's clear from the memo that the FCC considers security risks to be exempt from this requirement. It sounds like the AP being on your network is what constitutes the security risk. I doubt the FCC would have a problem with a network administrator taking action like that. Unrelated APs are different.

The link escapes me now but isn't this what Marriott is claiming?

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#75

Post by PhasmaFelis »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #70
schrodinger wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Marriott doesn't want to block your wifi because of some evil master plan, they want to do it to be able to sell you their wifi. If the fines cost more than the money they make selling you their wifi, they will stop, and the fines were high enough to do their job.

Blocking WIFI to sell WIFI is an evil plan. It's also highly illegal.

What point are you arguing that you think others are disagreeing with?

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#76

Post by kps »

dedward wrote: post #48
grecy wrote: post #27

Does this apply on private property, or on property with sufficient signage? I've often thought about opening a bar (or movie) theater where all wireless communications are blocked, to force people to not use their phones. Obviously I'd put up extremely big and obvious signs stating that, and I'd only be blocking if you were inside my building. Legal? EDIT: I wouldn't be blocking anyone from setting up a wi-fi hotspo…

Legal if the building is constructed such that the radio signals required cannot get in or out due to the materials used, like a giant farraday cage. The FCC does not have the authority to stop you from doing that. Their authority is in the area of regulating who can USE the airwaves.... they regulate who can broadcast, and how. And in this case, they are saying that building a device that actively transmits with the…

  > the airwaves are public.
Specifically, the ISM (Industrial, Scientific, Medical) bands, that common WiFi operates on, are open to use by anyone, and you can't interfere with anyone else's use of them.

Alternatively, you can license (effectively, lease) your own little slice of spectrum from the FCC, and then it's ‘yours’, and then you don't have to use forged packets to stop other people using it — the FCC will slap them for you.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#77

Post by Selfcommit »

Shivetya wrote: post #8
Selfcommit wrote: post #4

Is this targeted to people who would block residential in home wifi from Comcast and others? That would be disturbing.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/fcc-blocking-wi-f... Article with some more detail, this was because of Marriot

Thanks for that - makes more sense.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#78

Post by eslaught »

NolF wrote: post #64
matthewmcg wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if hotels are going to start sporting Faraday cages soon? "We shield you from potentially harmful EM radiation so you can enjoy a safe and comfortable night's sleep."

Surely that would affect mobile phone reception. I can't imagine anyone being happy about that.

The point of the faraday cage is to explicitly allow specific signals by setting up repeaters (i.e. femtocells, or whatever they're called these days) inside the cage.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#79

Post by kps »

josefdlange wrote: post #25

Damn, I'm a felon because of my old microwave!?

Only if you use it to interfere with US government communications (Title 18, Section 1362).

If it only interferes with other people's communications, that's just a regulatory matter (47 U.S. Code § 333), and practically speaking the FCC will only fine you if don't fix it or stop using it after you've been notified.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#80

Post by jsprogrammer »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #75
jsprogrammer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking WIFI to sell WIFI is an evil plan. It's also highly illegal.

What point are you arguing that you think others are disagreeing with?

Did you read the thread? Someone claimed that net income of an entity causing willful radio interference is irrelevant and that only marginal gains (as opposed to its "core business") made from its willful interference should be considered. I disagreed. I was then told I was "missing the point" and that Marriott does not have evil plans and that they don't/didn't attempt to influence rulemakers to permit their interference. This story doesn't fit the facts of what happened, so I called it out.
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